# UN Security Council members deny Kerry claims **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 26, 2004, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205 "2004-10-26T06:36:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/1 "2004-10-26T06:36:40Z")
> [@](#): > > U.N. ambassadors from several nations are disputing assertions by Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry that he met for hours with all members of the U.N. Security Council just a week before voting in October 2002 to authorize the use of force in Iraq. [Full article here.](http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041025-020600-3030r.htm) > [@](#): > > “This president hasn’t listened. I went to meet with the members of the Security Council in the week before we voted. I went to New York. I talked to all of them, to find out how serious they were about really holding Saddam Hussein accountable,” Mr. Kerry said of the Iraqi dictator. > [@](#): > > But of the five ambassadors on the Security Council in 2002 who were reached directly for comment, four said they had never met Mr. Kerry. > [@](#): > > “I’ve met with foreign leaders who can’t go out and say this publicly,” he said. "But, boy, they look at you and say: ‘You’ve got to win this. You’ve got to beat this guy. We need a new policy.’ " > [@](#): > > But the senator refused to document his claim and a review by The Times showed that Mr. Kerry had made no official foreign trips since the start of 2002, according to Senate records and his own published schedules. An extensive review of Mr. Kerry’s domestic travel schedule revealed only one opportunity for him to have met foreign leaders here. It would seem the Security Council members, and foreign leaders aren’t telling the truth, or Mr. Kerry has some explaining to do. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/2 "2004-10-26T06:46:48Z")
So either the UN is lying, or Kerry is? Why can we only pick one? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/3 "2004-10-26T06:51:35Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > So either the UN is lying, or Kerry is? Why can we only pick one? 😉 It’s obviously the UN since a politician would never lie. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/4 "2004-10-26T07:41:51Z")
It certainly sounds as if Kerry has misstated what happened. Unless several of the ambassadors are lying (and it’s hard to imagine why they would, rather than simply refusing to comment, if they wanted to keep their meetings secret), he did not meet with all of the Security Council members. He apparently did not meet with anyone from Mexico, Colombia, or Bulgaria. The cited article does make it clear, however, that he _did_ meet with the French and the British. There is no claim made in the article, one way or the other, about the Russians and the Chinese, an omission that I find odd. That also leaves 8 other members of the Council (a total of 10, including Russia and China) who haven’t said whether they met with Kerry or not. So, the _Washington Times_ reporter spoke to one-third of the members of the Council, and only half of the permanant members. Perhaps Kerry meant to say that he had met with all the _permanent_ members of the Security Council. Meeting with all 15 member nations would be pretty tough to pull off. I doubt that any Senator could successfully demand a meeting with the full Council all at once, and taking them one at a time would take weeks to coordinate. If this really matters to you, you should, of course, vote for Bush, who has always told the American public the full, unvarnished truth about everything. ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/5 "2004-10-26T11:01:48Z")
I’m shocked, shocked, to find out that a presidential candidate may have been less than honest. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/6 "2004-10-26T12:18:13Z")
> [@Earthworm Jim](#): > > I’m shocked, shocked, to find out that a presidential candidate may have been less than honest. Hold on a sec, you’re accepting as truthful the stuff printed by this guy? > [@](#): > > [Moon Over Washington > Why are some of the capital’s most influential power players hanging out with a bizarre Korean billionaire who claims to be the Messiah? > by John Gorenfeld, Contributor > 6.09.04](http://gadflyer.com/articles/?ArticleID=131) > > Should Americans be concerned that on March 23rd a bipartisan group of Congressmen attended a coronation at which a billionaire, pro-theocracy newspaper owner was declared to be the Messiah – with royal robes, a crown, the works? Or that this imperial ceremony took place not in a makeshift basement church or a backwoods campsite, but in a Senate office building? > > The Washington Post didn’t think so. For a moment on April 4, a quote from the keynote speech was in the Web version of its “Reliable Sources” column. The speaker: Sun Myung Moon, 84, an ex-convict whose political activities were at the center of the 1976-8 Koreagate influence-peddling probe. That’s when an investigation by Congress warned that Moon, after having befriended Richard Nixon in his darkest hour, was surrounding himself with other politicians to overcome his reputation: as the leader of the cult-like Unification Church, which recruited unwary college students, filled Madison Square Garden with couples in white robes, wed them in bulk and demanded obedience. > > That was before he launched the Washington Times – “in response to Heaven’s direction,” as he would later say – and a 20-year quest to make his enemies bow to him. He has also claimed, in newspaper ads taken out by the Unification Church, that Jesus, Confucius, and the Buddha have endorsed him. Muhammad, according to the 2002 ad, led the council in three cries of “mansei,” or victory. And every dead U.S. president was there, too – because Moon’s gospel is inseparable from visions of true-blue American power. > > Now, this March, Moon was telling guests at the Dirksen Senate Office Building that Hitler and Stalin, having cleaned up their acts, had, in a rare public statement from beyond the grave, called him “none other than humanity’s Savior, Messiah, Returning Lord and True Parent.” ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/7 "2004-10-26T12:50:51Z")
And the NYT, one of whose writers recieved a pulitzer for writing how great things were in the Soviet Union (as millions were being killed off by Stalin), is a magically more reputable? Did Jayson Blair tell you that? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/8 "2004-10-26T12:55:16Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > And the NYT, one of whose writers recieved a pulitzer for writing how great things were in the Soviet Union (as millions were being killed off by Stalin), is a magically more reputable? Did Jayson Blair tell you that? The NYT is pretty much crap. But as far as I can tell, no-one there has had a beyond-the-grave endorsement from Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/9 "2004-10-26T12:59:03Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > And the NYT, one of whose writers recieved a pulitzer for writing how great things were in the Soviet Union (as millions were being killed off by Stalin), is a magically more reputable? Did Jayson Blair tell you that? Ah, yes, corruption from 50 years ago at the NYT certainly does make the Washington Times more credible. When you’re done sniffing that glue, can I have some? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/10 "2004-10-26T13:03:22Z")
Hitler _and_ Stalin. We should all be impressed, no? Regardless, it’s not like he’s the one banging out the stories. News World Communications, the parent company of Washington Times, also has UPI news wire, Philadelphia Golf Monthly, and [others.](http://about.upi.com/company/news_world) Besides, the CEO is Rev. Chung Hwan Kwak, so I don’t see what you could possibly be complaining about. (Yes, it does look bad. But I have to see a Washington Times article be proven factually incorrect) ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/11 "2004-10-26T13:05:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Ah, yes, corruption from 50 years ago at the NYT… Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/12 "2004-10-26T13:07:42Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > Huh? The Stalin thing. Corruption was probably the wrong word. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/13 "2004-10-26T13:10:21Z")
OK. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/14 "2004-10-26T13:14:22Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > (Yes, it does look bad. But I have to see a Washington Times article be proven factually incorrect) But the New York Times, considered probably the most reputable paper in the country, you’ll toss out because of their coverage of Stalin’s Russia and the Jayson Blair incident, which resulted in the ousting of Blair, his editor, and a lot of internal examination to prevent such things from recurring? I don’t get that at all. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/15 "2004-10-26T13:22:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > But the New York Times, considered probably the most reputable paper in the country, you’ll toss out because of their coverage of Stalin’s Russia and the Jayson Blair incident, which resulted in the ousting of Blair, his editor, and a lot of internal examination to prevent such things from recurring? I don’t get that at all. If the NYT is considered the most reputable paper in the country, the US is in a pretty fucking sorry state. Remember that Judith Miller/Chalabi shit? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/16 "2004-10-26T13:30:21Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > If the NYT is considered the most reputable paper in the country, the US is in a pretty fucking sorry state. Remember that Judith Miller/Chalabi shit? It’s either the NYT or the Washington Post, or both. And yes, that was embarrassing. The performance of all the national media at that point was embarrassing, so I can’t single out the Times for that. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/17 "2004-10-26T13:36:16Z")
Tossing a little personal experience into the mix here… I interviewed to be Marketing Director at TWT in 2002. It was one of the weirdest experiences of my life (National Geographic was weirder). So I’m in there meeting with the top dog in Circulation and Marketing and he says flat out “We don’t really care if we make money. We’ve been told whether we make it or not we’ll keep printing because we’re an ego thing for Rev Moon. He LIKES having a newspaper in Washington DC as a toy.” Dude, I got out of there like a shot. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/18 "2004-10-26T14:19:06Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > Tossing a little personal experience into the mix here… > > I interviewed to be Marketing Director at TWT in 2002. It was one of the weirdest experiences of my life (National Geographic was weirder). > > So I’m in there meeting with the top dog in Circulation and Marketing and he says flat out “We don’t really care if we make money. We’ve been told whether we make it or not we’ll keep printing because we’re an ego thing for Rev Moon. He LIKES having a newspaper in Washington DC as a toy.” > > Dude, I got out of there like a shot. But wasn’t it the moment when they introduced you to your arranged-marriage bride that really pushed you over the edge? ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/19 "2004-10-26T15:42:39Z")
I just wanted to say that being Marketing Director at a company that doesn’t care if they make money or not sounds like my dream job. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/20 "2004-10-26T19:34:53Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > (Yes, it does look bad. But I have to see a Washington Times article be proven factually incorrect) All that proves is that you haven’t been paying attention. Again. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205.md?page=2)