# UN Security Council members deny Kerry claims **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 26, 2004, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205 "2004-10-26T06:36:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/21 "2004-10-26T21:32:05Z")
> [@danceswithcats via the Washington Times](#): > > [Full article here.](http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041025-020600-3030r.htm) “I’ve met with foreign leaders who can’t go out and say this publicly,” he said. "But, boy, they look at you and say: ‘You’ve got to win this. You’ve got to beat this guy. We need a new policy.’ " Note the [correction](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/03/09/kerry_assails_flaws_in_2000_vote/) on this page of that quote. > [@](#): > > The correct Kerry quote is: "I’ve been hearing it, I’ll tell ya. The news, the coverage in other countries, the news in other places. I’ve met **more** leaders who can’t go out and say it all publicly but, boy, they look at you and say, 'you gotta win this, you gotta beat this guy… ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/22 "2004-10-26T21:50:59Z")
Why is the US media covering al-Jazeera a lot? Because even they know that, despite its biases and being somewhat terrorist-friendly, it tend to tell the eerie truth and consistently out-scoop the EuroAmerican media. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/23 "2004-10-26T21:51:50Z")
The link posted **Raygun99** contains identical text to that in the OP. From a review of the posts to this thread, it seems that since the quotes cannot be refuted, the integrity of the publishing company should be called into question. Nice. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/24 "2004-10-26T22:06:48Z")
It seems that some people have literacy problems… Sam ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/25 "2004-10-26T22:19:51Z")
All of a sudden conservatives give a shit about lying? Well, good, have you heard about this one? George W. Bush lied his way into an illegal war. What do you think about that one? Which lie actually killed people? Until you Bush supporters address that little doozy then you have no credibility on whining about dishonesty. Get the fuck out my face with this bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/26 "2004-10-26T23:02:07Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > The link posted **Raygun99** contains identical text to that in the OP. > > From a review of the posts to this thread, it seems that since the quotes cannot be refuted, the integrity of the publishing company should be called into question. Nice. :dubious: You apparently didn’t read my post. Frankly, I think the _Washington Times_ isn’t good enough to wrap fish, but I did not question the accuracy of the information it provided. I questioned the _significance_ of that information, and I questioned how one might interpret it. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/27 "2004-10-26T23:45:30Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > So I’m in there meeting with the top dog in Circulation and Marketing and he says flat out “We don’t really care if we make money. We’ve been told whether we make it or not we’ll keep printing because we’re an ego thing for Rev Moon. He LIKES having a newspaper in Washington DC as a toy.” Yeah, I work for a major Newspaper advertising placement agency and they told us the same thing. Yeaaaaaah, we really want to run in that one. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/28 "2004-10-26T23:59:28Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > Tossing a little personal experience into the mix here… > > I interviewed to be Marketing Director at TWT in 2002. It was one of the weirdest experiences of my life (National Geographic was weirder). Okay, you _have_ to tell us about the National Geographic experience. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/29 "2004-10-27T02:10:11Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > The link posted **Raygun99** contains identical text to that in the OP. > > From a review of the posts to this thread, it seems that since the quotes cannot be refuted, the integrity of the publishing company should be called into question. Nice. :dubious: I repeat: Note the **correction** on [this](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/03/09/kerry_assails_flaws_in_2000_vote/) page of that quote. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/30 "2004-10-27T02:14:43Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > All of a sudden conservatives give a shit about lying? Well, good, have you heard about this one? George W. Bush lied his way into an illegal war. What do you think about that one? Which lie actually killed people? > > Until you Bush supporters address that little doozy then you have no credibility on whining about dishonesty. Get the fuck out my face with this bullshit. Thanks for the well reasoned and eloquent response. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/31 "2004-10-27T02:16:49Z")
You’re fucking welcome. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/32 "2004-10-27T02:26:26Z")
Well, I am shock, absolutely shocked, to find out that Kerry said he met with all of the members of the Security Council when he apparently met with many of them but not all of them. So, let’s see, the score now stands at Kerry…1 not completely truthful statement, Bush…[thousands of](http://www.bushlies.com/) untruthful statements. I guess we’ll just call it even. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/33 "2004-10-27T03:02:09Z")
Oh, good grief. Kerry undoubtedly meant to imply the permanant members of the Security Council - the guys with the ability to veto. Come on. Let’s stop being freakin ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/34 "2004-10-27T05:40:00Z")
Examine more closely what Kerry said and what the _Times_ portrayed him as saying. He never claimed to have met with the National Security Council as a group. > [@](#): > > Kerry: I went to meet with the members of the Security Council in the week before we voted. I went to New York. I talked to all of them, to find out how serious they were about really holding Saddam Hussein accountable…" He said that he spent two hours talking with them. That became “hours and hours” in the _Times_. He never claimed to have met with the _Ambassadors_ to the Security Council. There are other aids and assistants. The “members” of the Security Council are not the Ambassadors, but the countries themselves. The full context of his mention of the “entire Security Council” has been chopped up by the _Times_ so that it is unclear what Kerry actually said. Maybe someone can provide a link to a more reliable source. According to the _Times_, Kerry said: > [@](#): > > with the entire Security Council, and we spent a couple of hours talking about what they saw as the path to a united front in order to be able to deal with Saddam Hussein. They have added context which may or may not be accurate. Maybe he said, “I tried to meet with the entire Security Council, and we spent a couple of hours,” etc… So it is possible and probably that Kerry is not lying and that the Ambassadors are not lying and that the _Washington Times_ is up to its usual attempts to trick the public. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/35 "2004-10-27T06:10:59Z")
[Kerry vs. the truth.](http://www.cfr.org/pub6576/john_f_kerry/making_america_secure_again_setting_the_right_course_for_foreign_policy.php) > [@](#): > > So I sat with the French and British, Germans, with the entire Security Council, and we spent a couple of hours talking about what they saw as the path to a united front in order to be able to deal with Saddam Hussein. The contortions you guys are going through are quite humorous, but what about your impassioned claims to hold everyone equally accountable? Does that not go into effect until after Nov.2? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/36 "2004-10-27T07:04:03Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > [Kerry vs. the truth.](http://www.cfr.org/pub6576/john_f_kerry/making_america_secure_again_setting_the_right_course_for_foreign_policy.php) > The contortions you guys are going through are quite humorous, but what about your impassioned claims to hold everyone equally accountable? Does that not go into effect until after Nov.2? Equally accountable for what? Has Kerry lied his way into any illegal wars lately? This sounds like a case of overly literal “gotchaism” to me. Should call Bush a fucking lying sack if we find that he says he “addressed the entire congress” aboout such and such at blah blah blah and then we find out Congressman Dicktit from Witchita was having his asshair waxed that day, so it wasn’t really the _whole_ congress? Get the fuck out of my face with this bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/37 "2004-10-27T08:57:46Z")
The judge from Michigan gives **Diogenes the Cynic** a 8.5. Excellent contortions, and an amazing ability to wave away a blatant lie by his boy, but a weak ending. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/38 "2004-10-27T16:38:30Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > [Kerry vs. the truth.](http://www.cfr.org/pub6576/john_f_kerry/making_america_secure_again_setting_the_right_course_for_foreign_policy.php) > The contortions you guys are going through are quite humorous, but what about your impassioned claims to hold everyone equally accountable? Does that not go into effect until after Nov.2? Sorry, but I have to say that there is enough ambiguity here that it’s hard to see any clear lie. He may not have permanent. He may not have said which representatives. But the context of everything he says does NOT, as the Times tries to imply, say that he had a big sit down meeting with the heads of every on SC, permanent and non, all at once in a room with comfy chairs placed around a polished table. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/39 "2004-10-27T17:38:36Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > Sorry, but I have to say that there is enough ambiguity here that it’s hard to see any clear lie. He may not have permanent. He may not have said which representatives. But the context of everything he says does NOT, as the Times tries to imply, say that he had a big sit down meeting with the heads of every on SC, permanent and non, all at once in a room with comfy chairs placed around a polished table. I don’t think you get it, those are his own words. Lemme try this again: [Transcript of John Kerry speaking at a CFR event:](http://www.cfr.org/pub6576/john_f_kerry/making_america_secure_again_setting_the_right_course_for_foreign_policy.php) > [@](#): > > Thanks to some friends in New York, I was invited to come up and meet with the Security Council in the week prior to the vote, and I wanted to do that, because I valued my vote. And I wanted to know what the real readiness and willingness of our partners was to take this seriously. > > **So I sat with the French and British, Germans, with the entire Security Council** , and we spent a couple of hours talking about what they saw as the path to a united front in order to be able to deal with Saddam Hussein. Bolding mine. I don’t envy you guys the job of trying to defend his lies, but there you have it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205/40 "2004-10-27T17:48:58Z")
Brutus: If President Bush said, “I spoke to Congress and asked Congress to approve the tax cuts,” would you call him a liar because three representatives and two senators were absent? Kerry’s statement was (to me) clearly focused at the members of the Security Council that possess veto power. While he did not directly say this, and while his words were technically inaccurate, if parsed rigorously, it’s hardly sufficient to call him a liar. He was making a point. The fact that Upper Volta was not contacted does not diminish his point. - Rick [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/un-security-council-members-deny-kerry-claims/271205.md?page=3)