# Unban Satan! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 7, 2003, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118 "2003-01-07T07:06:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/182 "2003-01-09T01:12:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > \*\*I really don’t feel like doing a search, but it is a fact that kirkland was banned twice. If you need further proof, I suggest asking a MOD or doing a search yourself. \*\* You made the claim. :shrug: It may in fact be true. I don’t recall it, asked for substantiation. it was as simple as that. Next time, I suggest you refrain from saying “It is a fact” (as you do again here) unless you’re willing to go to the effort to substantiate it if asked. But in any event, it doesn’t really matter (so, no, theres’ no real reason to bother the hamsters to check it, since it isn’t relevant to my point). the banning of **Satan** came after (according to the original explanation thread) lots of warnings both public and private. In his appology, he admits that he was a total jerk for a significant period of time. ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/183 "2003-01-09T01:14:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > I was kidding, of course. I do hope Mr. C. doesn’t leave, though obviously I think the statement was a bit melodramatic. Hey now, **melodramatic** is saved for ME I tell you, ME!!! 😉 Oh wait, I am a Drama Queen, I forgot. hehe I love Our Mr.Cynical, he just seems tired of the stuff that happens. Everyone has the right to state what they choose here. If it’s melodramatic, then so be it. It didn’t harm anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/db5fbb/32.png) [@Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/184 "2003-01-09T01:16:32Z")
Thanks for 'splaining things, **Anthracite**. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/185 "2003-01-09T01:16:33Z")
Naw, **Mr. C** won’t leave. He’s tougher than a Pit Bull that eats barbed-wire curry for lunch. And that is tough. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/186 "2003-01-09T01:35:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > **You made the claim. :shrug: It may in fact be true. I don’t recall it, asked for substantiation. it was as simple as that. Next time, I suggest you refrain from saying “It is a fact” (as you do again here) unless you’re willing to go to the effort to substantiate it if asked.** Things can be fact without going to the effort to prove them to wring. It’s a fact that I’m married, but you don’t matter enough in my world for me to send you a notarized copy of my marriage certificate, and frankly I don’t care if you believe it or not. See how that works? Since a) you’re not the jury, b) the issue is resolved, and c) I doubt she cares whether you believe her anyway, I also don’t see why she should bother to “substantiate” the claim to your satisfaction. I sure wouldn’t bother. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/187 "2003-01-09T01:40:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diane \* > \*\*I pick my nose with my index finger. \*\* d When you do it, my darling, it’s _hot_. Fenris, in one of those moods ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/188 "2003-01-09T01:42:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > **A BANNED Member, removed for being a total asshole, who admits to being a sockpuppet user, and who is an all-around creep, is flaming me by proxy via his LiveJournal.** Forgive me for asking the obvious question, but if he’s BANNED (your caps, not mine), where else is he supposed to flame you? I’m sure the Paper Clip in Word would be a diligent audience, hanging on every sentence, but I don’t think **Satan** would get quite the feedback he’s looking for. And just FTR, saying, in effect, “I’m sorry that I was an asshole” doesn’t preclude him from flaming someone who is being, in a word, a bitch. Jesus Fucking Christ, hose the froth off of your upper lip and take a nap or something. Denis Leary thinks you’re going a little overboard with the invective. Hell, I just had a seance with Sam Kinison, and **he’s** asking you to chill the fuck out. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/189 "2003-01-09T01:44:14Z")
spare me, **Joe**. **Jersey** (who I’m sure is capable of answering herself) brought up as examples, two other people she claimed were banned more than once, as ‘gee, these two were much bigger jerks than Satan was and got another chance, why not him’. the issue of “were those other two posters banned then forgiven” **is** provable here. One would have to do a search. She decided it wasn’t worth it. That’s her perogative. However, if you wish your statements of “FACT” to be taken seriously, then you should be willing to submit proof, **since it can be done**. But AGAIN since you seemed to have missed it yet again - SO WHAT? Satans’ chances came before he was banned. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/190 "2003-01-09T01:45:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\*Things can be fact without going to the effort to prove them to wring. > > It’s a fact that I’m married, but you don’t matter enough in my world for me to send you a notarized copy of my marriage certificate, and frankly I don’t care if you believe it or not. See how that works? > > Since a) you’re not the jury, b) the issue is resolved, and c) I doubt she cares whether you believe her anyway, I also don’t see why she should bother to “substantiate” the claim to your satisfaction. > > I sure wouldn’t bother. \*\* I concur. The “but so-and-so got more and better chances” defense is upheld, and hereby pronounce court to be in recess. Go forth and sin no more. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/191 "2003-01-09T01:51:15Z")
[ul] [li] **Jersey** is correct AFAIK, **Kirkland** shares the distinction along with two or three other posters I can think of (no, I won’t name them: e-mail a mod) who has been banned and unbanned.[/li] [li] **Joe** ’s response was, IMO, an abrasive-sounding overreaction to a harmless comment by **wring**.[/li] [li]Boy, this thread sure has brought us together as a community, hasn’t it. :rolleyes:[/li] [/ul] Fenris ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/192 "2003-01-09T01:54:31Z")
I sure can feel the love. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/193 "2003-01-09T01:57:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\ ***stoid** - when I used the term, what I meant was the sort of thing I went through w/an assholic ex husband. > > He screwed up, hurt me, begged, pleaded, gave sincere apology, vows to reform and act better. I forgave. > > Repeat a million times or so. \*\* Here’s the difference: For most of Satan’s tenure here, he was a great guy, a great poster, and there were no significant problems of any kind. All the fuckups and forgives were in a fairly compressed period of time. It’s not like Satan was always a problem child, he was not at all. So rather than base decisions on the end, I think it is fairer and truer to look at the big picture of his tenure, which was as a great contribution to this place. > [@](#): > > \*\* and you couldn’t get me to take him back again. It simply wouldn’t be worth it.\*\* Understandable. But you must admit, there is a chasm of difference between one unbanned guy posting to a message board, and a remarried husband. > [@](#): > > \*\* “But what if he says he’s sorry and promises to not do it again” ‘But he’s said that over and over’. and there’s even a possability/probability that _some_ of the mods/admins would like to have him back (that was expressed in the email).\*\* See above. > [@](#): > > \*\* > with **Satan** and with **Melin** there were damn near armed camps (I wasn’t here for **Melins** but read about it) “no, they shouldn’t have”. Why in this very thread, we already have one person taking their bat and ball and going home. > > That’s what I personally meant about devisive. Polarizing was another word used. > > Think of Hillary Clinton. Most folk either love her or hate her with a purple passion to rival the ages. Polarizing. \*\* And so? Is it killing us? Would it kills us? Did it kill us? Shit, did it even do any lasting damage of any nameable sort? And more to the point…given the history is it really likely to play out that way again? I sure don’t think so. If Satan got banned again it’s hard to imagine a peep being made, much less a war. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/194 "2003-01-09T02:25:06Z")
I just read **Satan’s** LJ and his apology does appear to be sincere. I was all ready to change my opinion (not that it matters) about his reinstatement and publicly say so until I got to the slam on **Anthracite**. Yes, she posted her thoughts against him and they were strongly worded. Still, he’s supposed to have changed yet he couldn’t restrain himself not to get one last dig in. That was disappointing and didn’t speak well for how his future behavior would be. I don’t know **Anthracite** any more than I do **Satan** but I feel bad that she has to endure such a nasty pile-on. She doesn’t deserve it. Whatever **Satan** is and was, his presence is just too divisive and were best off without him here, IMO. Anyway, the decision has been made. Can we move on and stop fighting about this? Haj ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/195 "2003-01-09T02:36:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hajario \* > I just read **Satan’s** LJ and his apology does appear to be sincere. I was all ready to change my opinion (not that it matters) about his reinstatement and publicly say so until I got to the slam on **Anthracite**. _Yes, she posted her thoughts against him and they were strongly worded._ Still, he’s supposed to have changed yet he couldn’t restrain himself not to get one last dig in. That was disappointing and didn’t speak well for how his future behavior would be. > > Haj With all due respect to Anthracite, it’s not like Satan had any means to defend himself over here on the SDMB. I feel that he had a right to state what he felt but had no means to refute or dispute words in a place that he is banned. Why is he looking to be the bad guy with those remarks? He can’t post here but has the ability to post on LJ… ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/196 "2003-01-09T02:44:21Z")
Obviously, we need to accept the decision of the administrators. It’s their prerogative to weigh the pros and cons and make the proper decision for the good of the board. That doesn’t mean we cannot disagree – respectfully – with them. Accordingly, I’d like to register formally and publicly my disagreement with the conclusion they came to. I believe that he is sincere and would be restrained in his remarks, and an asset to the board. However, it’s probably a wise idea for each of us to realize that they have the responsibility of making such decisions (as a few members here, including myself, do on other boards – and so we few know how personal feelings and the need to exercise good dispassionate judgment for the benefit of what we’re working in behalf of can conflict). So: Ed and the other Admins. and Mods., I do think you’re wrong in rendering that decision. But I accept it as your sincere evaluation of what you feel is best for the boards. And, in passing, kudos to **Techchick** for her honest evaluation of the **Anthracite** /Satan clash sidelight here – it frustrates me when people I consider friends clash like that, especially over words that can and probably were misconstrued. (And on what other board on the planet could a thread of this nature have included a grammatical analysis of the part of speech of the word “weasel” as an integral part of the discussion? Doesn’t that very fact show how precious what we have here is? :)) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/197 "2003-01-09T02:45:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by techchick68 \* > \*\*With all due respect to Anthracite, it’s not like Satan had any means to defend himself over here on the SDMB. I feel that he had a right to state what he felt but had no means to refute or dispute words in a place that he is banned. > > Why is he looking to be the bad guy with those remarks? He can’t post here but has the ability to post on LJ… \*\* A right to defend himself? Hell, he has the right to say whatever he wants. He certainly could have defended himself without implying that she was a “dumbfuck”, stating that in the past that he didn’t think much of her and suggesting that she needs psychological help (even though she implied the same thing about him.) That is my issue, not that he defended himself against allegations in this thread. Haj ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/198 "2003-01-09T02:53:45Z")
Haj, You can take what he said as you chose. I can’t defend either of them because I do believe they both opened the keyboards and didn’t look back as to what they both were saying. Look, I dig both of them equally but I do stand with the fact that Satan can’t post here and had little recourse to what Anthracite said earlier. It is possible his reaction on the LJ post was to veil his anger with the words he used by what she said. No one is going to win this, it’s unwinnable. It’s wisest for all to just look at what transformed and try to avoid these types of situations in the future. To both of my friends, Una and Brian. I am saying this to be honest. As the old saying goes “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.” ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/199 "2003-01-09T03:02:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hajario \* > I don’t know **Anthracite** any more than I do **Satan** but I feel bad that she has to endure such a nasty pile-on. She doesn’t deserve it. Whatever **Satan** is and was, his presence is just too divisive and were best off without him here, IMO. If divisiveness were a reason to exclude people, the population of this board would be a lot smaller. The pertinent question is whether he was too much of a jerk here to consider bringing him back - considering **Kirkland** ’s readmission after his continual frothing attacks on all southern Baptists and so forth, it’s apparently a fairly generous standard - or if he would recommence being a jerk **here** , LJs and the like not counting since they don’t for anyone else either. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/200 "2003-01-09T03:06:12Z")
See now, unban him when \*\* Polycarp \*\*unban him thinks the decision was bogus,unban him ya gotta unban him wonder… Brought to you by the Subliminal Poster ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/201 "2003-01-09T03:12:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > **She decided it wasn’t worth it. That’s her perogative. However, if you wish your statements of “FACT” to be taken seriously, then you should be willing to submit proof, since it can be done.** No, what you’re missing is that she has neither the desire NOR THE NEED to prove anything to you. The fact that you don’t believe it is meaningless, and has nothing to do with the factuality of the claim, and in addition, the fact that you said ‘prove it’ does not confer on her the responsibility to do so. “Cite please” is not a legally binding directive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118.md?page=11)