# Unban Satan! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 7, 2003, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118 "2003-01-07T07:06:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/81 "2003-01-08T00:32:18Z")
In case anyone cares, 1. I don’t think that this thread was out of line. 2. I don’t think that Satan should be allowed back. I read through some of his stuff a few months ago as well as the thread where his banning was explained. He was a major asshole and, even if he has reformed, bringing him back would be way too devisive. Look at the shit storm that this thread alone has caused. Haj ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/82 "2003-01-08T00:33:50Z")
SPOOFE, if Satan wants to present his case to the staff, he is welcome to do so. He is even welcome to solicit testimonials from Dopers he knows from the board and IRL in support of reinstatement. But of course, Satan is not doing that here, and Joe is not acting as his representative in the matter. What Joe is doing is public relations, not private advocacy. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/83 "2003-01-08T00:39:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\*No, you cannot edit it after banning. SOP on most Boards is to clear all personal info, leaving it as blank as possible. On some Boards, they even run an SQL script to purge all reference to the offender as well, including all of their posts. Performing a “Member-ectomy”, as I call it. > > On some Boards… \*\* Yea, I figured as much. I just thought there might be a little glitch kind of like how you sometimes see another post or two after a thread has been locked. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/84 "2003-01-08T00:41:30Z")
> [@](#): > > unlike kirkland1244 and collounsbury, for example (both of whom were unbanned and given a second chance) You’re correct about **kirkland** , but I’m almost certain **Collounsbury** was banned just the once. Just to clarify. Carry on. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/85 "2003-01-08T01:11:18Z")
Full disclosure: **Satan** was and I hope still is a personal friend, though we’ve had very little contact (other than a brief period he was posting on the Pizza Parlor) after he moved away. He had a hot temper on issues that he believed in and felt strongly about. That, at long last, was what got him banned. I didn’t speak out then and while I considered some sort of appeal on his behalf, I decided not to, because I saw the justice in what the administration here felt they had to do. I have heard through third parties who did have contact with him that he felt he was being a jerk, and that he completely understands, and sympathizes with, the reasons he was banned. Although I hate the idea of “telling tales out of school,” it’s perhaps only fair to note that two years ago there were harsh words between him on the one hand and **Tubadiva** and **Ed Zotti** on the other, and that he felt that their attitude was not entirely fair at that time. I’m confident that that is water over the dam, and that no grudges are held by either side in that – but it may have affected the sentiments of _other_ staff who may have known about it. (For reasons I don’t think should be made public, **Tubadiva** has not been particularly active here lately – and many of us who care about her would not want her hurt.) As regards the propriety of this thread, I think it’s entirely proper. We agree to abide by the decisions of the administration to remain members in good standing – but one purpose for the Pit is to question, even vociferously, the propriety of such decisions. And, contrary to the jokes, the administrators and moderators are not some kind of power-mad cabal – they’re people trying to make the right decisions to keep the board lurching along with its usual calm demeanor. 😉 They have in the past and will in the future take the sentiments of members as expressed in the appropriate forums into account in making the decisions that are theirs to make. I don’t see that **Joe Cool** was doing anything out of order in bringing the issue up. It’s **their** decision, and I’m confident that everybody who has participated here will abide by it. If I had a vote, I’d say to bring **Satan** back, and predict that if that were done, we’d have the pleasure of his wit and ability to argue an issue sensibly and forcefully, _without_ the ill temper that plagued his final days here – which if my opinion were sought, I would attribute to problems with his former job in music marketing and absence from **Drain Bead**. That’s my ten cents. It will anger some and please others, but that’s how I feel about the issue, for what it counts. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/86 "2003-01-08T02:28:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cuauhtemoc \* > **Satan** , **Satan** , **Satan** … I have a vague memory of a guy whose girlfriend **liked to** put on a strap-on and ream him in the ass. That’s the guy, right? Oh, please bring him back! I only started my serious lurking after his much-lamented banning and I’ve always felt like I missed something good. \*\* :eek: the phrase you are looking for is **wanted to**! ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/87 "2003-01-08T03:03:43Z")
Three comments: 1. I didn’t interact with **Satan** a lot, so I don’t have much of a dog in that fight. Like **wring** , I joined about the time **Satan** was off the SDMB for some reason and only saw his comeback. I think that if **Satan** wants to come back, urging him to e-mail would be a far more productive use of time. 2. IMO, this thread was bad (even if well-meant) idea or at least premature. The mods/admins have **NEVER** given in to public pressure like the OP seems to be intent on creating… Not once. Not ever. If they did, **Melin** would still be a member: all other bannings have been minor ripples compared to the tidal wave of controversy surrounding **Melin**. At this point, were I a mod, I’d be _less_ likely to unban **Satan** for fear of giving the impression that popular appeals work\*. Pressuring someone to do something rarely works. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > \*\*But if he were to get banned again, I think that most people here, even those who were in his corner, are going to have the sense to say, “Look, when they let him back onto the board, he _knew_ he was going to have to be a model citizen. And he was a dick anyway. Good riddance.” > \*\* I _strongly_ disagree, **RT** ; there will always be the usual “O my gawd! The mods are on a banning RAMPAGE! I fear that I shall be next!” ninnies who show up after almost any high-profile banning. There will also be those who say “See? They unbanned him but were just _waiting_ to pounce on any mistake so they could get rid of him again.” (I’m not pointing any fingers at anyone in this thread, but given that I’ve yet to see a topic that Dopers will agree upon, I think this is inevitable). I think that if the OP wanted to help **Satan** be unbanned, he (the OP) should have at least tried to handle it through e-mail first and if that didn’t work or he got an unsatisfactory answer, _then_ this sort of thread might be warranted. Fenris \*This may explain why I’m not a mod. Also the fact that I’ve never applied. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/88 "2003-01-08T03:23:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > **…and until a recent contribution you made to a thread of mine, I was pretty convinced I was one of the “dozen or so” (if I recall correctly), who live on your ignore list. So in other words… "huh?"** Oh, really? And how did you come to that conclusion? Since we have no contact outside of this Board, and I’ve never said as much, how did you arrive at that? I hope you aren’t falsely accusing me of communicating that, and thus being in violation of Board Rules. You better choose your words very carefully here. > [@](#): > > **I have observed that you have a lot of problems with a lot of people; color me unsurprised that Satan is among them.** A “lot” of problems with a “lot” of people. Oh yeah, that’s me, Ms. Anti-Social. :rolleyes: You want to point out specific people who are unfairly deserving of my scorn? Come on, you brought it up, now show some spine and name names. > [@](#): > > **Sure. Most recently, see the Collounsbury thread that happened just a week or two before he was actually banned. See the daily “pittings” of dozens and dozens of posters. That doesn’t seem to get you in such a tizzy…why do you become so enraged at a post calling for forgiveness?** Nope, sorry. Those don’t involve calls to unban people who deserved it, and you know that. Kindly do not sidestep the issue, and try again. Are you actually claiming that having “for” and “against” threads every time a Member is banned, or long _ex post facto_, is not divisive and destructive? By its very _definition_ that sort of action is divisive; whether it is destructive is subject to debate, but it seems pretty clear to me that it would be. Let me put it this way, if you’ve read this far - how exactly would it be _constructive_? ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/89 "2003-01-08T03:47:00Z")
If **Satan** wants to be reinstated as a member again, let him. He’s a great guy and doesn’t post as much in his journal as I would like. I would love to priviledge to meet him and soon to be bride, I find them both wonderful beings. However, unless he chooses to ask for the admins/mods to bring him back, let him be. Chances are he has gone past this place and wants to continue upon his life. As for other banned members mentioned here (you all know who I mean) don’t compare them. They’re each of different circumstances to which led them to the admins making the choice of banning. If **Satan** wants back I am sure he will make the appropriate appeal. Otherwise, let sleeping dog ummmm, sleep. If he want’s to come back, he will initiate it, I am sure. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/90 "2003-01-08T04:09:16Z")
For god’s sake, let the guy back. We all get mad. We even get provoked. We all, to a one, change over time. Not all of us learn to forgive. If the personal feelings of any of you matter enough to prevent Satan’s unbanning, moderators and admins and tech gods, and even Cecil…then I’ll give up my posting privelages. It wouldn’t be the kind of place I’d want to be involved with anymore. Grow. Improve. Learn. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/91 "2003-01-08T04:25:27Z")
This seems like a unique situation in that I doubt many people who have been gone for almost 2 years would _want_ to come back. I think if forgiveness is due to anyone [and I realize my opinion means nothing here] it’s a guy like satan. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/92 "2003-01-08T05:15:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > **Oh, really? And how did you come to that conclusion? Since we have no contact outside of this Board, and I’ve never said as much, how did you arrive at that? I hope you aren’t falsely accusing me of communicating that, and thus being in violation of Board Rules. You better choose your words very carefully here.** Oh for god’s sake, Anthracite, quit looking for shit to stir. My point was not especially complex: I have directed posts at you and been \* ignored\* repeatedly. > [@](#): > > \*\* You want to point out specific people who are unfairly deserving of my scorn? Come on, you brought it up, now show some spine and name names.\*\* I know this seems unbelievable, but enumerating who you should and should not be scornful of just doesn’t top my list of interesting, life-affirming, educational things to do. So I’m afraid I’ll have to decline your otherwise charming offer. > [@](#): > > \*\* Nope, sorry. Those don’t involve calls to unban people who deserved it, and you know that. Kindly do not sidestep the issue, and try again.\*\* I don’t see the big difference. It appears we view things differently. Frankly, I’m stunned. > [@](#): > > \*\* Let me put it this way, if you’ve read this far - how exactly would it be _constructive_? \*\* I think forgiveness, letting go, moving on, growing up…all these are very constructive. Nursing anger, holding grudges? Not so much. ---
**Author:** ![NothingMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b77776/32.png) [@NothingMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NothingMan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/93 "2003-01-08T05:47:29Z")
Hey **Stoid** and **Anthracite** - getting a freakin room ok ? Or better yet start yer own damn pit thread. Blimey. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/94 "2003-01-08T05:54:21Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Stoid \* > Oh for god’s sake, Anthracite, quit looking for shit to stir. My point was not especially complex: I have directed posts at you and been \* ignored repeatedly._ Please provide links. I do not ignore posts I see which are directed at me. And I don’t read an awful lot of the Board - there are several Fora I never read. And I also commute to and from Europe, and sometimes have to disappear for days or weeks. Did you mail to see why I was not answering posts directed “at me”? (Checking…nope, you didn’t.) And don’t say it “doesn’t top my list of interesting, life-affirming, educational things to do” - you wouldn’t have done it “repeatedly” if you didn’t feel it was important. And you wouldn’t be whinging about it now. So, show me where. Now. > [@](#): > > \*\*I know this seems unbelievable, but enumerating who you should and should not be scornful of just doesn’t top my list of interesting, life-affirming, educational things to do. So I’m afraid I’ll have to decline your otherwise charming offer. \*\* So in other words, you once again aren’t going to back up your claim. Did you blatantly lie, or were you just being hyperbolic? > [@](#): > > **I don’t see the big difference. It appears we view things differently. Frankly, I’m stunned.** Sorry, I’m not going to let you skate away from this one. The difference is - pre-banning gripes, versus post banning appeals to be let in. Understand now? > [@](#): > > \*\*I think forgiveness, letting go, moving on, growing up…all these are very constructive. Nursing anger, holding grudges? Not so much. \*\* :rolleyes: That’s not what I inquired about, and you know it. You do realize that what I wrote and what you responded with are here for all to read, right? And to compare, and see that your answer has nothing to do with my query? Why do you refuse to answer my question? It was simple enough, and not even insulting. I repeat the question: > [@](#): > > Are you actually claiming that having “for” and “against” threads every time a Member is banned, or long ex post facto, is not divisive and destructive? By its very definition that sort of action is divisive; whether it is destructive is subject to debate, but it seems pretty clear to me that it would be. Let me put it this way, if you’ve read this far - how exactly would it be constructive? Here’s another one: isn’t part of “forgiveness, letting go, moving on, growing up”, something that someone should do when they get banned from a message board for being an enormous asshole? Shouldn’t that person let go, move on, grow up, and visit some of the rest of the 2[sup]32[/sup]-1 other IP addresses on the Net? Gee, sounds like a winning plan to me. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/95 "2003-01-08T06:00:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NothingMan \* > \*\*Hey **Stoid** and **Anthracite** - getting a freakin room ok ? > > Or better yet start yer own damn pit thread. > Blimey. \*\* “Blimey” yourself. I’m trying to explain why I feel that the types of threads in question are not constructive. I listed clearly why I felt such. This is on-topic. The fact that we are now going around in circles is not my fault. All Stoid had to do was answer questions honestly, instead of playing “Dance of the 7 Veils”, and making statements and accusations and then thinking I’ll just let them lie. If you think I’ve violated Board Rules, please complain _immediately_ to a Moderator or Administrator. Their e-mails are listed in their Member profiles. Or, click the “Report this Post to a Moderator” link. That works as well. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/96 "2003-01-08T06:01:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > \*\*. . . .the backstory goes like this: **Satan** moved to Columbus, Ohio to be with **Drain Bead** , who was then finishing up college in Columbus. \*\* Holy shit. . . I live down the road from, could it be. . . _ **SATAN?** _ ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/97 "2003-01-08T06:04:11Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\* > Now._\* No. > [@](#): > > \*\* So in other words, you once again aren’t going to back up your claim. Did you blatantly lie, or were you just being hyperbolic?\*\* Neither. > [@](#): > > \*\* Sorry, I’m not going to let you skate away from this one. \*\* Gee, so sorry. You’ve gotten all the answer you are going to get out of me. We’ve got a big picture here, Anthracite. You see it one way, I see it another. We’ve each stated our positions. I don’t need to agree with you, nor you with me. I also don’t have to indulge your demands on my time and energy, and I’m simply not going to. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/98 "2003-01-08T06:06:59Z")
Anthracite, You know I hold you in the highest respect, but frankly, this thread is not constructive because it’s being sidetracked by whatever personal thing is between you and Stoid. I started this thread to discuss the constructiveness of allowing Satan to return. If you want to discuss the constructiveness (or not) of this type of thread, please don’t hijack mine. With all due respect. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/99 "2003-01-08T06:10:36Z")
Um, that last post should have been directed to you as well, Stoid. I’m not trying to be bitchy or start problems – I think both of you are cool – but please don’t wreck my thread by fighting about unrelated stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118/100 "2003-01-08T06:17:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > \*\*Gee, so sorry. You’ve gotten all the answer you are going to get out of me. > > We’ve got a big picture here, Anthracite. You see it one way, I see it another. We’ve each stated our positions. I don’t need to agree with you, nor you with me. > > I also don’t have to indulge your demands on my time and energy, and I’m simply not going to. Sorry about that. \*\* Oh, I’m ever-so sorry that you don’t feel you have the time to back up what you said about me. Maybe you shouldn’t have let your mouth write checks that your butt couldn’t cash? I could understand it if you were just lying. That at least would make sense. But your posts and your behaviour - or misbehaviour - here, are nonsensical. I hope your mind doesn’t really work this way, and that this is all part of your persona. Because that would be scary. Good thing these posts will be here for future reference. (On Preview) Joe - unless Stoid opens her yap again to make _yet another_ poke, snide remark, or accusation about me in here, I’m done here. Period. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unban-satan/147118.md?page=6)