# UNBELIEVABLE public transport costs in the UK **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 5, 2007, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unbelievable-public-transport-costs-in-the-uk/386755 "2007-01-05T01:20:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unbelievable-public-transport-costs-in-the-uk/386755/21 "2007-01-05T15:14:17Z")
[QUOTE=Mk VII] The price of flying from Bournmouth Hurn to Leeds-Bradford was £5 [/QUOTE] Surely this is a typo, 10 bucks to fly? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unbelievable-public-transport-costs-in-the-uk/386755/22 "2007-01-05T15:27:31Z")
Don’t forget that rail privatisation was so ‘successful’ that subsidies to private rail companies have gone up. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unbelievable-public-transport-costs-in-the-uk/386755/23 "2007-01-05T15:31:53Z")
[QUOTE=quicken78] A long while back, there was a suggestion that all rail lines in the UK should be ripped up and replaced with roads, with a permanent bus services operating in their place. I also notice that there aren’t really any significant passenger rail networks in the US (save a few on the East Cost), which might imply that the market-driven forces there have led them to more sensible conclusions regarding the long term viability of this form of public transport. [/QUOTE] Your argument here seems to suggest the presumption that road systems work on a private capital model without taxpayer-based support. Well, no, they don’t. The highway system gets gigantic subsidies from public coffers. From some reason, though, nobody insists that the “highway system” generate its own operating expenses, or even a profit. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unbelievable-public-transport-costs-in-the-uk/386755/24 "2007-01-05T15:37:13Z")
[QUOTE=Epimetheus] Surely this is a typo, 10 bucks to fly? [/QUOTE] Possibly but not necessarily. Lots of low-cost airlines have insanely cheap fares (although you have to add taxes). [Ryanair](http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/) sells lots of tickets for £0.01 each way, exclusing taxes… they currently claim £9.99 each way including tax for some destinations. As for rail fares, the price for a one-day **off-peak** Travelcard for me to get to London and use the Tube is £17.60 ($35) for a distance of about 35 miles. If I were to go at peak time it would be over £30. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unbelievable-public-transport-costs-in-the-uk/386755/25 "2007-01-05T17:51:52Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > And as GorillaMan pointed out, highway roads don’t turn a profit, either. Neither do airlines, once you consider the government subsidies in building the airports, operating the air traffic control system, and spending military money to design the planes & engines. Also, the airlines have a hidden subsidy in the form of contracts to carry mail. Those contracts pay very well, in exchange for a fairly minor amount of work on the airlines’ part. And despite all this government help, the airlines are constantly in bankrupcy court. We really might as well start thinking of them as public utilities, like the regional bus companies serve most major metropolitan areas in the US, and would go broke in about two days if not for local tax money. ---
**Author:** ![Martha\_Medea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@Martha\_Medea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martha_Medea)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unbelievable-public-transport-costs-in-the-uk/386755/26 "2007-01-05T18:12:07Z")
Thanks, **Mangetout** and **Angua**. I’m bracing myself for a visit this summer, knowing that in London especially, you go through an incredible amount of money just by existing. If you’re travelling with another person/people, do you have to get one per person? What about children (my son will be seven)? ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unbelievable-public-transport-costs-in-the-uk/386755/27 "2007-01-05T19:04:41Z")
[QUOTE=glee] Don’t forget that rail privatisation was so ‘successful’ that subsidies to private rail companies have gone up. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Right, but now we aren’t riding around in cattle cars. I think there’s more than a few people who look back with rose tinted glasses at BR :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unbelievable-public-transport-costs-in-the-uk/386755/28 "2007-01-06T00:08:55Z")
[QUOTE=Dominic Mulligan] Right, but now we aren’t riding around in cattle cars. I think there’s more than a few people who look back with rose tinted glasses at BR :dubious: [/QUOTE] Cattle cars? When did you last travel on a railway? 😕 ‘The companies supplying the trains and carriages that run on Britain’s railways are facing the threat of a competition inquiry today amid allegations they are ripping off passengers by charging the rail-operating firms too much. The Department for Transport has referred the matter to the Office of Rail Regulation after talks aimed at lowering the cost of rolling stock failed last month. In a statement, the ministry said privatisation had failed in its aim of introducing a competitive train-leasing market. Train operators lease almost all of their rolling stock from just three companies, each owned by one of the big banks: Angel Trains, a division of the Royal Bank of Scotland; HSBC Rail, owned by HSBC; and Porterbrook, a part of the Abbey Group. They were separated from British Rail when the railways were privatised in 1996 and sold off as independent entities. They make combined profits of £165m a year. The Guardian disclosed last month that the government had set a deadline for the rolling stock companies to cut their prices or face an inquiry.’ [http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,329516161-103630,00.html](http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,329516161-103630,00.html) ‘The Conservatives said today that the break-up of the railways by the last Tory government had pushed up running costs and hindered expansion. In another major split from the party’s past, shadow transport secretary Chris Grayling called for the reintegration of track and train as he launched a review of the railways. He told a meeting of rail industry figures in London that the structure of the system was the source of much of their problems. “We think, with hindsight, that the complete separation of track and train into separate businesses at the time of privatisation was not right for our railways,” he said. "We think that the separation has helped push up the cost of running the railways - and hence fares - and is now slowing decisions about capacity improvements.’ > **[tollbit-host.com](https://tollbit-host.com/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2006%2F07%2F17%2Futory.xml&sSheet=%2Fnews%2F2006%2F07%2F17%2Fixnews.html&xml=%2Fnews%2F2006%2F07%2F17%2Futory.xml&sSheet=%2Fnews%2F2006%2F07%2F17%2Fixnews.html)** > > Find information, resources and relevant links for tollbit-host.com. This domain may be for sale. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2007, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unbelievable-public-transport-costs-in-the-uk/386755/29 "2007-01-06T00:15:22Z")
What argument do you suppose your cites actually support? Certainly not one suggesting that the quality of rolling stock was superior in the BR days! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unbelievable-public-transport-costs-in-the-uk/386755.md?page=1)