# Uncle Sam Does Not Belong in Girls’ Dorms or Showers **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 27, 2021, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878 "2021-04-27T19:52:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/1 "2021-04-27T19:52:26Z")
So I happened across this letter today, regarding the College of the Ozarks suing Joe Biden over, I think, one of his executive orders: > **[Uncle Sam Does Not Belong in Girls’ Dorms or Showers](https://www.yahoo.com/news/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-103022646.html)** > > Last week, College of the Ozarks sued President Biden. While we did not do so lightly, the Biden administration’s radical and unilateral actions to violate women’s privacy and religious liberty — with little concern for the text of our laws — left us... So I read this letter expecting to find out what, exactly, Biden has done to violate the sanctity of girl’s dormitories or showers, but aside from adding “religious liberties” being added to the list, I’m still having a hard time figuring out exactly what the problem is. Granted, I didn’t read the executive order, so the relevance of their tuition policy might be apparent upon reading that, but the only thing that seems to be apparent from this letter is that they are being required to integrate male and female dormitories…I guess? Obviously, being a Christian school, I can understand their horror at the concept of unmarried men and women cohabitating in the same building, but there seems to be more to it than just that. Could someone help me understand what the fuss here is all about? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/2 "2021-04-27T19:58:36Z")
Here is their press release: [https://www.cofo.edu/News/moduleId/1421/Id/190/controller/PressRelease/action/Details](https://www.cofo.edu/News/moduleId/1421/Id/190/controller/PressRelease/action/Details) The relevant bit seems to be this: > [@](#): > > The [lawsuit](https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fadfmedialegalfiles.blob.core.windows.net%2Ffiles%2FCollegeoftheOzarksComplaint.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Ctwhitted%40cofo.edu%7Cefb517979bd348eade0e08d9003b3da7%7C351f8794e0694031972a7c72a96ed812%7C0%7C0%7C637541076703117048%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=HW93sCKGlb99sZ%2BUGwcaz1cLm%2B9%2Bgg0%2F%2FQLjcI5tQ04%3D&reserved=0) challenges a directive from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), which forces religious schools to violate their beliefs by opening their dormitories, including dorm rooms and shared shower spaces, to members of the opposite sex. The [directive](https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hud.gov%2Fsites%2Fdfiles%2FPA%2Fdocuments%2FHUD_Memo_EO13988.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Ctwhitted%40cofo.edu%7Cefb517979bd348eade0e08d9003b3da7%7C351f8794e0694031972a7c72a96ed812%7C0%7C0%7C637541076703127041%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=y3j97qpLz5B%2FHaxf4OmRNyk9DduZQZkPNusF%2B9Zfp9o%3D&reserved=0) accomplishes this by requiring entities covered by the Fair Housing Act to not “discriminate” based on sexual orientation or gender identity. > > The administration’s rule change forces religious schools to violate their beliefs by opening up female dorms to biological males and vice-versa, or face fines of up to six figures, punitive damages, and attorneys’ fees. The reinterpretation of “sex” in the Fair Housing Act comes in light of President Joe Biden’s [executive order](https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.whitehouse.gov%2Fbriefing-room%2Fpresidential-actions%2F2021%2F01%2F20%2Fexecutive-order-preventing-and-combating-discrimination-on-basis-of-gender-identity-or-sexual-orientation%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctwhitted%40cofo.edu%7Cefb517979bd348eade0e08d9003b3da7%7C351f8794e0694031972a7c72a96ed812%7C0%7C0%7C637541076703137041%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=h8XgCWDCabQxdSQb1gbIDEaA9TvFCTf6BYdfecwOrbM%3D&reserved=0) titled, “Preventing and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation,” signed in January 2021. > > Attorneys from Alliance Defending Freedom will represent the College. > > “The government cannot and should not force schools to open girls’ dorms to males based on its politically motivated and inappropriate redefinition of ‘sex,’” said ADF Senior Counsel Julie Marie Blake. “Women shouldn’t be forced to share private spaces—including showers and dorm rooms—with males, and religious schools shouldn’t be punished simply because of their beliefs about marriage and biological sex. Government overreach by the Biden administration continues to victimize women, girls, and people of faith by gutting their legal protections, and it must be stopped.” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/3 "2021-04-27T20:02:18Z")
Isn’t it just a transgender thing? They don’t believe people can change gender so consider someone considered to be male at birth could never be considered to be allowed in a women’s dorm. Now imagine me speaking to them in the most condescending satirical sneer voice possible, “Like it’s any of your business in the first place how people were born you insufferable parasites”. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/4 "2021-04-27T20:14:46Z")
Ah, the old “men” in girl’s bathroom trope. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/5 "2021-04-27T20:20:25Z")
If I’m not mistaken, this legislation is a bit different. This would require even **cisgender** people of the opposite gender to be allowed in. It would be an “anyone uses anywhere” thing. Not that that would be necessarily wrong (AIUI, military men and women shower in the same facilities; obviously same for astronauts too.) ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/6 "2021-04-27T20:22:29Z")
The order is specifically about discrimination based on orientation and Gender Identity. So no, it doesn’t require that. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/7 "2021-04-27T20:23:13Z")
Said another way … > As Dean of the College of the Ozarks, my interpretation of my religion requires me to discriminate against transgendered people. How _dare_ the Feds tell me to do otherwise. > But I’ll write my press release as vaguely as possible hoping to stir up images of Biden requiring ordinary young men & women to share shower facilities so I get more traction and outrage from the semi-sane. ---
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/8 "2021-04-27T20:24:05Z")
Huh, the bit about how students work rather than pay tuition sounded like it had something relevant to the issue. I guess that was just a bit of fluff to add the element of “look at how wonderful we are” to add weight to their sense of victimhood. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/9 "2021-04-27T20:31:32Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > > [@press release](#): > > > > Attorneys from Alliance Defending Freedom will represent the College. “Alliance Defending Freedom is the world’s largest legal organization committed to protecting religious freedom, free speech, marriage and family, parental rights, and the sanctity of life.” IOW, [fuck those LGBTQ heathens!](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/alliance-defending-freedom) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/10 "2021-04-27T20:33:04Z")
> [@Dahnlor](#): > > Huh, the bit about how students work rather than pay tuition sounded like it had something relevant to the issue. I guess that was just a bit of fluff to add the element of “look at how wonderful we are” to add weight to their sense of victimhood. I think the basis of the Fair Housing directive applying in this case is that the students are paying for their housing through their work. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/11 "2021-04-27T20:52:55Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Ah, the old “men” in girl’s bathroom trope. Got it. My reply to the ‘I don’t want men putting on a skirt so they can spy on my daughter/wife’ is typically to explain that by pushing back on this rule, what they’re saying is that they’d prefer to have [this person](https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1144302067940392960/HU1zmE3J_400x400.png), a transgender male, in the bathroom with their daughter, right? Also, they don’t seem to understand, not that I’d expect them to, that a man throwing on a dress isn’t trans or gender fluid, he’s a cross dresser and even would still have to use the mens bathroom. Wearing women’s clothing and wanting to be a woman are two different things. Of course, the few times I used that argument with the unwashed masses, many of them went straight to ‘I’ll shoot anyone that looks like that if they try to use the bathroom while my wife/daughter is in there’. That’s the problem, they (whoever ‘they’ are) don’t want a man “pretending” to be a woman to be allowed in the women’s room. And as much as they play the ‘if you’re born m/f, you’re m/f, period’ game, they also don’t want someone that’s born a woman and now presents as a man, to be in the women’s room. The general take away from that is, so far as they’re concerned, if you don’t look and act like the gender you were born as, you just need to stay home. ETA, that picture is Buck Angel. There’s a good documentary on him out there somewhere, but he’s a porn start so it’s very NSFW. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/12 "2021-04-27T21:08:41Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If I’m not mistaken, this legislation is a bit different. This would require even **cisgender** people of the opposite gender to be allowed in. It would be an “anyone uses anywhere” thing. > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > The order is specifically about discrimination based on orientation and Gender Identity. So no, it doesn’t require that. @Velocity, do you want to comment? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/13 "2021-04-27T23:00:00Z")
Smells like maybe the RW media fake news machine has deliberately misrepresented the order. And the our dear naïve easily fooled @Velocity fell for it. As did the morons at the Ozark College. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/14 "2021-04-28T01:39:09Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Smells like maybe the RW media fake news machine has deliberately misrepresented the order. And the our dear naïve easily fooled @Velocity fell for it. [Not the only one, either.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098) ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/15 "2021-04-28T04:13:25Z")
pretty much. are you surprised? The right wing media seems to be all about owning the libs these days as opposed to anything of substance. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/16 "2021-04-28T04:34:17Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > The right wing media seems to be all about owning the libs Self-owning, more like. Their displays of outrage tend to demonstrate a tenuous grasp of reality. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/17 "2021-04-28T04:39:07Z")
The bit about how students pay their expenses by working at the college sounded awfully Marxist to me. I thought the problem was going to be some anti-Communist thing, not a bullshit trans-bashing thing. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/18 "2021-04-28T05:16:21Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Smells like maybe the RW media fake news machine has deliberately misrepresented the order. And the our dear naïve easily fooled @Velocity fell for it. As did the morons at the Ozark College. To be fair, @Velocity may have only been going by reading the link in the OP, clarifying what they thought it was saying. Personally, I think the press release is a deliberate fabrication. It’s been too long for them to still believe this. They knew it was just a trans thing and are trying to mislead. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/19 "2021-04-28T13:08:21Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > And the our dear naïve easily fooled @Velocity fell for it. **Modnote** : This is pretty close to an attack on Velocity. Please do not do this again. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878/20 "2021-04-28T14:19:28Z")
Thank you for the correction. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-sam-does-not-belong-in-girls-dorms-or-showers/940878.md?page=2)