# Uncle Toby -- Take a Loooong Walk **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2002, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300 "2002-09-06T15:42:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/1 "2002-09-06T15:42:24Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Uncle Toby** in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=134065)_ > Why allow infertile couples to marry? > > No one should be allowed to have a marriage contract until they have children. The esteemed asshole who posted this is of the opinion that marriage is " a special contract to promote social good" and that the sole purpose of marriage is to have children. He’s on record there and elsewhere as describing homosexuality as a “perversion” (although he claims to be using a dictionary definition that makes the term not a moral judgment). That’s fine; he’s entitled to his opinion (though it’s difficult to distinguish exactly what he _does_ mean by the term. But his argument against gay marriage (which I think had not even been brought up in that thread until he addressed it) was: > [@](#): > > I do not mean perversion as statistical anomaly. As an organism it is by definition the primary aim to get your genes in the next generation. Any behavior or characteristic which flatly contravenes this imperative is a perversion. You could make an argument that homosexuality helps the overall population of a group or the relatives of a homosexual but I’ve not seen it done even close to convincingly. A homosexual couple cannot have children, that is they cannot have their own children, though they could have someone else’s. When we start cloning people things will be different. Against the accusation (mine) that he was seeking to impose his views on people he responded: > [@](#): > > I am not seeking to impose my views on people. I am trying to get you to see that maybe, just maybe you just might not be so completely and convincingly right that only a troglodydic bigot would even think of disagreeing with you. I’m not interested in addressing homosexuality or gay marriage in this thread, although I’m offended at his perspective on them. But hello? Saying that “No one should be allowed to have a marriage contract until they have children” is damn well “seeking to impose my views on people.” My wife was seduced (fairly willingly) by the one living person on this planet whom I hate, at the age of 19. She conceived and was several months pregnant when he got into an argument with her and decided to beat her up, including several punches to the abdomen. She did not lose the child. But her ovaries reacted to the abuse by developing multiple cysts. In 27 years of marriage we have had no children of our own, though we have opened our home to a large number of young people over the years, and have strong relationships with three of that number and the children of two of them. I love my wife dearly, and have done all in my power to make her life meaningful and build up her fractured ego, I believe fairly successfully. I feel that we have a very healthy marriage and one that is a positive benefit to society, albeit we have not passed on our combined genes to a new generation. **Uncle Toby** , for condemning **my** marriage, you are cordially invited to strip naked, rub yourself all over with raw beef, and then walk into a cageful of Dobermans. This should have the net effect of improving the gene pool both of humanity and of Dobermans, by providing them with a little extra nourishment. I would tell you to kiss my ass, but while I would gladly tend someone near and dear to me with a highly infectious and incurable disease if needed, there are some contagions I just refuse to risk, and that would be one of them. Never mind what you may think about the committed gay couples I know, on this board and off it. You’re welcome to hold any opinion you choose to about them. But your attitude about **my** marriage puts you well beneath contempt in my eyes. :wally ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/2 "2002-09-06T16:16:37Z")
Oh…uncle toby. You KNOW you’re in trouble when Polycarp takes you to the pit. Back off now, you smug son of a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/3 "2002-09-06T16:24:36Z")
**Polycarp** , the antics of this jerkoff aside (they speak for themselves), that is an awful story and my heart goes out to you and your spouse. We all have to deal with storms in our life but that one seems particularly harsh. You’re a good man for making the best out of a shitty situation. She’s lucky to have a person like you in her corner. May the force be with you. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![EchoKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@EchoKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EchoKitty)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/4 "2002-09-06T16:28:34Z")
Go, Poly! Go, Poly! And ditto for my marriage (childless by choice). Blow me, you self-righteous cretin! ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/5 "2002-09-06T16:32:42Z")
Watch it, **Kitty** —he probably considers that kind of talk “foreplay.” ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/6 "2002-09-06T16:35:20Z")
What **Dalovindj** said. You do more good works by 9:00 than most people do all day. Be all you can be. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/7 "2002-09-06T16:35:58Z")
:eek: Poly called someone an asshole? Damn. With you 100%, Polycarp. And might I say that I think you’re doing just fine with regards to your marriage? ---
**Author:** ![JayElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@JayElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JayElle)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/8 "2002-09-06T16:49:50Z")
> [@](#): > > If you don’t reproduce you are unhealthy. This follows from the definition and thus needs no cite… OK, I know I’m brand new to the board, and should stay out of the Pit, but **Uncle Toby** , take your damn dictionary from hell and stuff it up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/9 "2002-09-06T16:50:19Z")
Geez, now I’m sorry I skipped the thread in question. **Poly** , you’re a wonderful human being. This other fellow is, at best, a piece of tripe. Not just next to you, either. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/10 "2002-09-06T16:50:59Z")
Holy shit is all I can say. It takes a LOT to piss off **Polycarp**. My advice, **Toby** , though I wish it involved deep personal (physical and emotional) pain, is simply to go away until you can play nice. And you know, I don’t know that any of us will mind terribly if that takes you the rest of your life. The rest of us won’t have to deal with the kind of … whatever … you are. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/11 "2002-09-06T16:52:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*:eek: > > Poly called someone an asshole? Damn. > \*\* Yeah. I’ve never seen him this pissed. In fact, I don’t recall that I’ve ever seen him really pissed _at all_. Stern, yes, but not angry. It takes a special kind of asshole to anger the nicest man on the board. And **Polycarp** …what **DJ** said. (I’m not good at this.☹ ) ---
**Author:** ![EchoKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@EchoKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EchoKitty)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/12 "2002-09-06T16:53:21Z")
Eve – Eeeeewwwww! Sex with Uncle Toby? Yeah, when monkeys fly outta my butt! (Oops! He might think that’s beastiality!) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/13 "2002-09-06T17:01:08Z")
Um. If I read that quote aright, not only homosexuals, but _all_ people who are childless from choice are perverts… nice one, **Toby**. Well, that pretty much lumps me in with the perverts. If I may quote from the 1662 Book of Common Prayer on the subject of marriage:- > [@](#): > > First, It was ordained for the procreation of children, to be brought up in the fear and nurture of the Lord, and to the praise of his holy Name. > Secondly, It was ordained for a remedy against sin, and to avoid fornication; that such persons as have not the gift of continency might marry, and keep themselves undefiled members of Christ’s body. > Thirdly, It was ordained for the mutual society, help, and comfort, that the one ought to have of the other, both in prosperity and adversity. Sounds to me as if **Polycarp** is doing pretty well in the “mutual society, help, and comfort” department… more marriages should have such solid foundations. (Sigh). And I had _hopes_ for **Uncle Toby** … oh, well, so it goes… ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/14 "2002-09-06T17:07:47Z")
It seems pretty clear to me, by the hilariously contorted illogic Uncle Toby’s been pulling out of his ass that he’s constructing the justification after the fact. I.e., that he’s trying mightily to justify his own personal distaste for homosexuals, and since he can’t do so rationally, he’s forced down some pretty roundabout paths. (Oh, and thanks, Poly; I decided not to pit the putz because I probably would have beat the hell out of my keyboard expressing myself on the subject. Such an extreme asshole requires an equally extreme levelhead to take him to task. We are all, ever and again, in your debt.) ---
**Author:** ![Wildcatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@Wildcatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildcatz)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/15 "2002-09-06T17:17:33Z")
> [@](#): > > If you don’t reproduce you are unhealthy. Why yes, **Uncle Toby** , I was unhealthy. Until I had to have an emergency hysterectomy due to severe endometriosis. Apparently I, like many others, should abstain from marriage because I can’t reproduce? Fuck you. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5ac83/32.png) [@The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mad_Hermit)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/16 "2002-09-06T17:34:51Z")
Another example of self-righteous jerks wanting to control what we do with our genitals. My wife had ovarian cancer before I became involved with her; we cannot have children from our marriage. But each of us has a son, and our family together is stronger than any of us can be individually. It seems the bandwagon for those who would impose their “morality” on others is getting bigger, and the movement is gaining momentum as voice after voice cries out “Ban this” and “Criminalize that.” What would happen if this trend were to continue to its extreme conclusion? We would all be dead, in jail, or the slaves of a select few. I respect the fact that everyone is entitled to their opinion. It just becomes more difficult to respect the opinion when it comes from the person’s ass. (unhealthy my ass, you loser.) ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Toby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b3f665/32.png) [@Uncle\_Toby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Toby)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/17 "2002-09-06T17:35:11Z")
With respect Polycarp you took that quote about ‘marriage contract’ completely out of context and misinterpreted it. I was asked what I would do if I ran the world. My point was to differentiate between marriage as a sacrament and marriage as a legal contract. I said that asking me what I would do was pointless to the argument. Perhaps I shouldn’t have answered but I thought it might help people understand and appreciate the underlying point I’m trying to make which no one has seen so far. I do not condemn in any way your marriage I only say IMHO it’s not the state’s business. IMHO the state’s only justifiable intrusion into marriage is for the interests of the children. Even so I wouldn’t impose this view by any means… ---
**Author:** ![EchoKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@EchoKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EchoKitty)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/18 "2002-09-06T17:50:36Z")
Marriage doesn’t guarantee anything to children that they don’t already have without marriage. I did not marry my son’s father, but he was still responsible for child support. The children by his marriage didn’t receive any child support and either did my son. The point that was being made is that you, Uncle Toby, are saying that gays would have special treatment if allowed to marry, when the reality is that they are discriminated against by being forbidden the same social and legal rights as heterosexuals. Even heterosexuals who don’t love each other are allowed to marry. You can backpedal all you want, but it is apparent to everyone who read your post where you stand on civil rights. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/19 "2002-09-06T18:04:58Z")
**Uncle Toby** , I thought I was beyond amazement. I thought I could no longer be startled by the convolutions the human mind could undertake to justify an untennable position. I was wrong. Thank you, **Uncle Toby** , for restoring my sense of wonder… I wonder where the _fuck_ your head is. I wonder if the stench you’re smelling is from the normal contents of that place, or if it’s the reek of your feculent opinions. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/20 "2002-09-06T18:13:04Z")
And if nobody can see what your point is, **UncleToby** , you should consider the possibility that you’re not doing a very good job of explaining yourself. Though, I have to admit, for a straight supremacist, you have admirably mastered the use of polysyllabic words. What’s next? A basic grasp on the fundamentals of logic? Even, perhaps, the beginnings of an ethical outlook on life? We can only hope… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300.md?page=2)