# Uncle Toby -- Take a Loooong Walk **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2002, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300 "2002-09-06T15:42:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/41 "2002-09-07T00:15:09Z")
Isn’t trolling a bannable offense? ---
**Author:** ![Genseric](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Genseric](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genseric)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/42 "2002-09-07T00:16:47Z")
Count me in with those above. If **Polycarp** calls you an asshole, you have fucked up _big time_. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/43 "2002-09-07T00:17:31Z")
I posted the above as a flat question, not to be provocactive. I in no way presume to vote for banning one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/44 "2002-09-07T00:26:06Z")
Toby, it is very important that you do not breed. ---
**Author:** ![papergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/aca169/32.png) [@papergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/papergirl)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/45 "2002-09-07T01:42:21Z")
Wow. One time–ONE time in ten years of teaching–I told my students to shut up. Complete, utter, shocked silence followed. Then, a couple of years of students reminiscing, “Remember when Msbodypoet told us to shut up? WOW! That was something!” Those kids probably STILL remember the day IT happened. Now I kinda know how they feel. Thank you, **polycarp.** As always, I’m in awe. (And can I email you sometime? I’ve tried but got bounced.) Best, karol ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/46 "2002-09-07T01:44:32Z")
I think his admission of trolling is simply a defense after he realized he had gotten his ass kicked. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/47 "2002-09-07T03:06:14Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > Originally posted by Uncle Toby in this thread > Why allow infertile couples to marry? > > ## No one should be allowed to have a marriage contract until they have children. > > The esteemed asshole who posted this is of the opinion that marriage is " a special contract to promote social good" and that the sole purpose of marriage is to have children. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I share the opinion of Uncle Toby, for pretty much opposite reasons. I think the government has no business at all regulating the kind of union I want to engage myself in.Not only I’m in favor of gay marriage, but also of polygamic marriage, polyandric marriages, and whatever other kind of marriage you can think of. For instance, if I want to live platonically with my brother because we appreciate each other and think we’re more happy that way, why not? And why would it have different legal consequences than for people living together because they love each other or lust after each other? But of course, I realized that in this case, at some point, the concept of marriage in itself lose any signifiance. So, more and more, I think the state shouldn’t endorse at all the institution of marriage nor regulate it, and should only enter the picture (granting rights or advantages, etc…) when children are born (or adopted). Marriages being in this case considered as private matters, regulated by private contracts if need be, without intereference by the government. Some advantages granted by marriage (say, concerning taxes) should be removed from the books and others (transfer of lease, acquisition of citizenship) based of other objective criteriums not related to a state-endorsed marriage (for instance, you lived for 3 years in the appartment, so you can keep the lease when your “partner” die, regardless who he was : husband, boyfriend or best mate) So, in some way, I agree with Toby : no endorsement/regulation of an union by the state as long as there are no children. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/48 "2002-09-07T03:45:53Z")
I don’t feel like getting in to this too deeply, but I feel like most of you are needlessly vilifying \*\*Toby[/y]. He does not seem a troll to me. An “adversarial stance” does not constitute trolling. I’ve done worse than that. I’ve taken the _devil’s advocate_ position in GD before. I have said things I don’t personally believe. Does that mean I’m trolling? No. Hell no, of course not. I think most of you are reading far too much into his words. **Polycarp** , you know I love you, but perhaps you allowed the situation with your wife to make **Toby’s** comments a little more personal than they were meant to be. It seems more that he was arguing an intellectual point about the government and what constitutes a marriage contract. To the rest of you: Yes, **Polycarp** is the closest thing to a saint we have on this board. I respect him highly. However, don’t run to back him up without thinking about the facts. Think for yourselves and read what was actually said. He will be the first to tell you that he is only human. Sometimes he’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Netbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71e660/32.png) [@Netbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Netbrian)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/49 "2002-09-07T05:01:43Z")
I, like a few others, am wondering if UncleToby is using the “trolling” excuse to avoid taking the full blame for his posts. They certainly seem like what he actually believes to me, based on his previous posts. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/50 "2002-09-07T05:18:49Z")
**Toby** never said he was trolling. Am I the only person who reads things without a pre-biased view? He never said he was trolling. He said he took “an adversarial stance”. He did. And that is completely fair in GD. His is an unpopular view. He does not need to be pitted merely because you disagree with him. Jump off the dog pile and _think_. You can respectfully disagree, but **Toby** has not come near to crossing the line. Lay off. ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/51 "2002-09-07T07:39:42Z")
Calling gay people and those who do not have children or cannot have children or who do not fit Herr Toby’s limited worldview perversions crosses so many lines that you’d lose count if you tried to enumerate them. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/52 "2002-09-07T07:45:44Z")
His unfortunate use of the denotation of the word “perversion” instead of the conotation aside, where did he cross the line? ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/53 "2002-09-07T07:50:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beeblebrox \* > **Toby** never said he was trolling. Am I the only person who reads things without a pre-biased view? He never said he was trolling. He said he took “an adversarial stance”. He did. And that is completely fair in GD. > > His is an unpopular view. He does not need to be pitted merely because you disagree with him. Jump off the dog pile and _think_. You can respectfully disagree, but **Toby** has not come near to crossing the line. Lay off. If one is going to play devil’s advocate in GD, one usually bloody well either says so or gets pitted for it if it’s something akin to what **Uncle Toady** said. “I took an adversarial stance because I wanted to see if any of you would come up with this or could knock holes in the argument.” This is after the fact saying “Hey, I was only arguing something to see if someone else had any problem with it”. Commonly known as the “Oh fuck you’re NOT all idiots” defense. See **smithwow** for a (I’m warning you, don’t go unless you want to see) [classic example of this.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48489) Except it assumes we are. And while I dare not speak for myself, I know many GDers who are not. [sub]And do you _REALLY_ expect so many people to say “Hey, I was only trolling”? I mean, come on!:)[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/54 "2002-09-07T07:50:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Homebrew \* > > I think his admission of trolling is simply a defense after he realized he had gotten his ass kicked. Sadly, his kind will never have enough brain cells to realize that fact. Pity. And **beeble** , perhaps we ought to advise you to do the reading yourself. What _didn’t_ he say that wasn’t offensive? I sure missed it… Esprix ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/55 "2002-09-07T07:55:47Z")
Guess what? Homosexuals are also “abnormal”. Why? Because the are a minority, and hence not “normal”. **Uncle Toby** tripped over his own feet when he made the “perversion” comment but his point was one of denotation, not of conotation. He does not need to be roasted in the pit, just beaten in GD. Lay off the dog pile. Ya’ll are over-reacting. It is reached a point where I think that **Toby** deserves an apology. He never said half the things you people are accusing him of. I don’t agree with his points, but _damn_, I feel like I am the only sane voice in Salem right before the witch trials. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/56 "2002-09-07T08:00:49Z")
Beeblebrox, who else is abnormal? Since men are a minority does that make me abnormal based on my genetic makeup? ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/57 "2002-09-07T08:15:30Z")
Conotation/denotation **iampunha**. Try to follow my point. If I use the word in a denotative sense don’t for a minute think that I believe the conotative. I have zero problem with homosexuals, have friends that are homosexuals, and believe that homosexuals should be allowed to marry due in large part to my loving my uncle and his lover of twenty some odd years. However, **Toby** does not deserve the bile that is being thrown at him. He has shown no history of prejudice. Ya’ll jumped on him and put him on the defensive so badly that he was bound to “take an adversarial stance”. However (again), I grow tired of being a public defender. I wash my hands of this. ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/58 "2002-09-07T10:04:49Z")
Marriage gives certain legal benefits. I would like to know why those couples who are currently without children (for whatever reason, infertile, choice, sexuality) do not deserve these benefits. I’m primarily talking about the ability to make medical decisions for your partner, to be able to visit them in hospital, etc… ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/59 "2002-09-07T12:21:48Z")
Ahem, **Beeblebrox** , gay pepople are NOT abnormal. We are perfectly normal, just not common. I can just see you and **UncleToby** at the florist: “There’s a red rose among a basket of white ones–it’s abnormal!” At the dog show: “Wait a sec…the Shih Tzu among the beagles…how abnormal!” At the library: “You like Marcel Proust when most people prefer John Gresham? You’re abnormal!” ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300/60 "2002-09-07T12:48:41Z")
Conotation/denotation **gobear**. Jesus, I thought you of all people would be inteligent enough to know the difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncle-toby-take-a-loooong-walk/127300.md?page=4)