# Uncontacted Amazon tribe. Is this a hoax? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 30, 2008, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167 "2008-05-30T17:32:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/21 "2008-05-31T15:53:28Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] One of my field assistants, a man of about 50, was from a group that had been uncontacted until he was about 20. He had some interesting stories to tell. [/QUOTE] Go on. ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Igor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Vlad\_Igor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vlad_Igor)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/22 "2008-05-31T17:08:07Z")
[QUOTE=hajario] Go on. [/QUOTE] Second. I’d love to hear some of his stories. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/23 "2008-05-31T17:09:38Z")
[QUOTE=Vlad/Igor] Second. I’d love to hear some of his stories. [/QUOTE] First, you must undergo certain initiation rights. What is you pain threshold? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/24 "2008-05-31T17:21:33Z")
[QUOTE=hajario] Go on. [/QUOTE] For one, he asked me very seriously one day if something the missionaries had told him was true. He said that before contact men of his tribe were allowed to marry their sisters. The missionaries told them they shouldn’t, since this could cause problems with the children. I told him that in this case the missionaries probably had it right. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/25 "2008-05-31T17:39:50Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] I told him that in this case the missionaries probably had it right. [/QUOTE] Um, don’t you mean _I told him his position was correct_? ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/26 "2008-06-01T05:51:28Z")
I hope this isn’t a hijack, but…is the bow and arrow really as obvious a tool as to have ALL THESE TRIBES with little to no social contact to use similar or the same weaponry? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/27 "2008-06-01T06:21:48Z")
[QUOTE=Cyberhwk] I hope this isn’t a hijack, but…is the bow and arrow really as obvious a tool as to have ALL THESE TRIBES with little to no social contact to use similar or the same weaponry? [/QUOTE] Bows and arrows have been around for many thousands of years. They have not been developed by each tribe independently; instead they have diffused from tribe to tribe. As has already been said, these tribes are generally in contact with other neighboring tribes. They are isolated from outside “Western” culture, not from all other people. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/28 "2008-06-01T06:49:07Z")
Does the law apply to uncontacted peoples? What if one of them causes property damage by poaching a farmer’s livestock? What if one of them poaches the farmer? (OK, we all know what would _really_ happen if a tribesman was accused of killing a farmer: No more tribe. I’m talking about legally.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/29 "2008-06-01T07:20:08Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] Does the law apply to uncontacted peoples? What if one of them causes property damage by poaching a farmer’s livestock? What if one of them poaches the farmer? (OK, we all know what would _really_ happen if a tribesman was accused of killing a farmer: No more tribe. I’m talking about legally.) [/QUOTE] I believe the law applies, but it is virtually impossible to enforce. The only witnesses to the killing are likely to be the tribesmen who did it. Even if you were able to capture them (which is unlikely), how would you compel them to testify against one another? [Here’s](http://www.wrm.org.uy/bulletin/87/Ecuador.html) an article about the Huaorani of Ecuador, who were first contacted in the 1940s. Two small groups within the tribe, the Tagaeri and the Taromenani, remain basically uncontacted. The Tagaeri in particular are known for their ferocity. > [@](#): > > During the next thirty years, many raiding and killing episodes marred the interactions between Tagaeri and outsiders. Famous for their fierceness, the Tagaeri have ‘spear killed’ oil workers, missionaries, and others whom they saw as intruders. Most famously, they killed an Archbishop from the Capuchin Mission and a Colombian nun from the Laurita mission in July 1987. I don’t believe the individual Tagaeri who committed these killings have been identified, much less apprehended. For those interested in a tribe such as the Huaorani, I would highly recommend the book _Savages_ by Joe Kane. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/30 "2008-06-01T12:26:24Z")
[QUOTE=MikeS] Firing arrows at aircraft seems to be the thing to do if you’re an uncontacted tribe and want to be left alone. The [Sentinelese](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6786476/) did the same thing when rescue & relief helicopters came to visit them after the 2004 tsunami. [/QUOTE] I’ve often wondered how uncontacted tribes explain helicopters and aircraft to themselves. I figure some of them in the Amazon or South America are probably talking to other tribes who are talking to the Government or people like that and are probably at least aware of the fact that people from Outside The Jungle have flying canoes or something like that, but someone like the Sentinelese seem to have had absolutely no contact with anyone at all- no outsider speaks their language and they seem to respond to any attempt to contact them by firing arrows or throwing spears. Do they see helicopters they way we see Flying Saucers, or are they aware of the concept of a helicopter from 40 years of people trying to contact them? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/31 "2008-06-01T17:32:19Z")
**Colibri** : Well, then it’s time to make an example of the Tagaeri the next time something like that happens. Being outside the law puts you at more risk, not less. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/32 "2008-06-01T17:46:02Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] **Colibri** : Well, then it’s time to make an example of the Tagaeri the next time something like that happens. Being outside the law puts you at more risk, not less. [/QUOTE] How do you propose doing that, exactly? Send in a SWAT team of policemen to nab them? Indiscriminately strafe their villages? What do you mean by “making an example of them”? ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/33 "2008-06-02T01:52:17Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. Forget the red guys, who is guy painted black? He looks totally badassed. While it’s certainly hard to be sure, I think that’s a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/34 "2008-06-02T02:29:40Z")
[QUOTE=ZenBeam] While it’s certainly hard to be sure, I think that’s a woman. [/QUOTE] Yes, I saw another photo where you can clearly see the figure has chesticles ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/35 "2008-06-02T03:36:53Z")
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield] I’ve often wondered how uncontacted tribes explain helicopters and aircraft to themselves. [/QUOTE] With most aircraft being distant and innocuous, they’re probably dismissed as our ancestors dismissed the stars. ---
**Author:** ![Internut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Internut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Internut)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/36 "2008-06-02T05:11:22Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] Does the law apply to uncontacted peoples? What if one of them causes property damage by poaching a farmer’s livestock? [/QUOTE] I’d have to say the gods would be crazy to allow a world where a native could be put into jail for rules and laws were impossible to comprehend to them. ---
**Author:** ![Internut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Internut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Internut)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/37 "2008-06-02T05:16:24Z")
Oh yeah, and way to screw with them by flying a helicopter right over their village. That won’t mess with their culture, customs, religion, etc… in any way whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/38 "2008-06-02T07:36:23Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] How do you propose doing that, exactly? Send in a SWAT team of policemen to nab them? Indiscriminately strafe their villages? [/quote] A military expedition, obviously. The fact they’re nomadic and tend to avoid camping in the open would make a strafe run very difficult. > [@](#): > > What do you mean by “making an example of them”? Destroying a small group in a very open and obvious manner, so as to make sure the word gets around that if you attack people under the protection of the law, the government is going to punish your whole group. Short of being able to bring the Tagaeri under the protection of the law it is the most humane thing. > [@Internut](#): > > I’d have to say the gods would be crazy to allow a world where a native could be put into jail for rules and laws were impossible to comprehend to them. If the Tagaeri can’t comprehend the law against homicide they are a danger to everyone else in the region and should be made to understand it before they get enough weapons to do serious damage. Their prior behavior seems to preclude a peaceful discussion on the nature of a democratic society, so we’re left with brute force. ---
**Author:** ![puppygod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@puppygod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puppygod)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/39 "2008-06-02T08:35:46Z")
So, basically, you are proponent of genocide? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167/40 "2008-06-02T14:21:43Z")
[QUOTE=puppygod] So, basically, you are proponent of genocide? [/QUOTE] The Tagaeri have proven themselves willing and able to kill people (commit homicide). They are out of the reach of law enforcement. No society can tolerate homicide from whatever source. Therefore, the Tagaeri must be dissuaded from committing homicide. As per the second premise, the sanctions must be military. Therefore, the Tagaeri must be the target of a military action. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncontacted-amazon-tribe-is-this-a-hoax/451167.md?page=3)