# Uncovering Gay Subtext in classics (probable open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 2, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155 "2006-05-02T21:45:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/1 "2006-05-02T21:45:54Z")
I’m not sure exactly why this thought popped into my mind, but now that it is there, I can’t let it go and it.seems.to.make.perfect.sense. clearly, I am going insane. **Regarding Pride and Prejudice.** What If…Mr. Darcy and Mr. Bingley were closeted gay lovers? Possible, especially with the way Bingley seems to need Darcy’s permission to go after the woman that Darcy shooed away from him ( to keep Bingley all to himself.) because it seemed an unsuitable match. ( Darcy, the minx, was lusting after Bingley.) It makes even farther sense that the pair marry sisters, so that they can keep up proper appearances and their forbidden love. After all Mr. Darcy did for the woman he (supposedly) loved, he could have actually done it for the man he loved and the shame marriages they would make with the sisters and their Great Scheme Of Things would fall through if Bingley couldn’t marry Jane, who would be ruined by the entire affair with Lydia and Mr. Wickham.) And I’m starting to think that maybe Mr. Wickham had some dirty bisexual hijinks going on with the both the Darcy siblings. I feel so dirty now. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/2 "2006-05-02T22:21:18Z")
There’s certainly no gay subtext in **The Maltese Falcon** / It’s all out in the open. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/3 "2006-05-02T22:40:09Z")
I see one in the Jeeves and Wooster stories by P G Wodehouse, though more in the PBS TV version than in the written stories. Bertie’s gay- that’s why he’s so desperate to avoid getting engaged to any of the girls. He and Jeeves are gay lovers, which is why Jeeves bails him out of so many situations. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/4 "2006-05-02T23:11:22Z")
I used to wonder about Poirot and Captain Hastings. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/5 "2006-05-02T23:18:08Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > I used to wonder about Poirot and Captain Hastings. Captain Hastings is too dense to even understand the concept. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/6 "2006-05-03T00:39:23Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > I used to wonder about Poirot and Captain Hastings. There is so much art deco production design in the _Poirot_ shows, I doubt any straight male character could last more than five minutes in that environment. Same with _Campion_, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/7 "2006-05-03T01:13:58Z")
H. Rider Haggard’s novel **She** is probably the most crypto-gay misogynist book I’ve ever read. It could easily be made into a hilariously camp burlesque stage play. Short version: An intellectual bachelor professor battles a goddesslike immortal sorceress for the soul of his beautiful, blond dumb-as-a-rock young pupil. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/8 "2006-05-03T01:14:04Z")
I’m starting to wonder if Buckaroo Bonzai and his Hong Kong Cavaliers were just some kind of Gay Posse. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/9 "2006-05-03T01:17:26Z")
_Moby Dick_ is the gayest classic ever written. The gayness starts with the dedication to Nathaniel Hawthorne and progresses to men spooning, whale penises, and romps in spermacetti. Not that there’s anything wrong with that… ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/10 "2006-05-03T01:33:54Z")
_romps in spermacetti_\* would be an awesome band name! ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/11 "2006-05-03T01:58:21Z")
> [@Shirley Ujest](#): > > **Regarding Pride and Prejudice.** > What If…Mr. Darcy and Mr. Bingley were closeted gay lovers? Possible, especially with the way Bingley seems to need Darcy’s permission to go after the woman that Darcy shooed away from him ( to keep Bingley all to himself.) because it seemed an unsuitable match. ( Darcy, the minx, was lusting after Bingley.) > > It makes even farther sense that the pair marry sisters, so that they can keep up proper appearances and their forbidden love. > > After all Mr. Darcy did for the woman he (supposedly) loved, he could have actually done it for the man he loved and the shame marriages they would make with the sisters and their Great Scheme Of Things would fall through if Bingley couldn’t marry Jane, who would be ruined by the entire affair with Lydia and Mr. Wickham.) > > And I’m starting to think that maybe Mr. Wickham had some dirty bisexual hijinks going on with the both the Darcy siblings. > I feel so dirty now. Then you have to read…err…dammit…now I can’t remember the actual title. The Censored Jane Austin? The Hidden Jane Austin? Which has all the sex scenes “Jane Austin” left out of her work. I don’t recall Darcy and Bingley being there, but they should be…maybe you should collaborate. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/12 "2006-05-03T02:03:37Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > _Moby Dick_ is the gayest classic ever written. The gayness starts with the dedication to Nathaniel Hawthorne and progresses to men spooning, whale penises, and romps in spermacetti. Not that there’s anything wrong with that… I thought so, too, and I’m only half-kidding. All that testosterone… ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/13 "2006-05-03T03:23:22Z")
Mary Watson was _obviously_ the good doctor’s beard… You people are twisted and I love you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/14 "2006-05-03T06:11:19Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > _Moby Dick_ is the gayest classic ever written. The gayness starts with the dedication to Nathaniel Hawthorne and progresses to men spooning, whale penises, and romps in spermacetti. Not that there’s anything wrong with that… _Benito Cereno_ too. Jesus Christ, but Babo and Cereno have a messed up relationship–Cereno is totally Babo’s bitch. I just wrote a paper about homosexuality in that story/novella/whatever, and I could have gone on for far longer than I had room for. If you ask me, Melville had a taste for manflesh. I have been informed by a good friend that if I ever have a need for soft-core porn (male/female, I’m afraid), that [Mr. Darcy Takes a Wife](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1402202733/sr=8-1/qid=1146636411/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-2876549-0197505?%5Fencoding=UTF8) should go at the top of my list. Apparently, Darcy is a consummate lover, while Bingley is less than accomplished. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/15 "2006-05-03T12:09:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Moby Dick is the gayest classic ever written. The gayness starts with the dedication to Nathaniel Hawthorne and progresses to men spooning, whale penises, and romps in spermacetti. Not that there’s anything wrong with that… Not to mention that in the chapter “The Cassock” they dress up one of the crew in the skin from the whale’s penis. One of those things they don’t tell you about in high school. Say, speaking of detectives, not only is the mentioned-obliquely Sherlock Holmes notoriously wary of women, but so is Nero Wolfe, who lives in a houseful of guys… ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/16 "2006-05-03T12:14:02Z")
The censored Jane Austin…awesome! I do have the Mr. Darcy Takes a Wife book in my book queue at the library. It’s been a few months…hmmm…must be good. Another one that comes to mind is…and please don’t flame me…The New Testament. Jesus and his Disciplines…being nailed on the cross…is that bondage to the extreme or what? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/17 "2006-05-03T12:59:47Z")
> [@Anne Neville](#): > > I see one in the Jeeves and Wooster stories by P G Wodehouse, though more in the PBS TV version than in the written stories. > > Bertie’s gay- that’s why he’s so desperate to avoid getting engaged to any of the girls. He and Jeeves are gay lovers, which is why Jeeves bails him out of so many situations. I think you misspelled “balls.” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/18 "2006-05-03T13:01:35Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Mary Watson was _obviously_ the good doctor’s beard… > > You people are twisted and I love you. 😃 Peter Parker is not a doctor. Yeah, I know you’re talking about Sherlock Holmes. It just took me a second to figure it out. And if you’re not talking about the bachelors of 221-B, don’t tell me. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/19 "2006-05-03T15:00:29Z")
This long and two Melvilles and no _Billy Budd_? Or is that just too obvious? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155/20 "2006-05-03T15:13:38Z")
It was obvious to all of us in eighth grade English class, although the teacher denied it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uncovering-gay-subtext-in-classics-probable-open-spoilers/355155.md?page=2)