# Undeniably talented artists/performers who are also, undeniably, horrible people. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 27, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283 "2014-12-27T16:09:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/1 "2014-12-27T16:09:00Z")
I was just thinking of how often this overlaps…artists that you have to respect their work but can’t help despising them as human beings. Eminem Phil Spector Roman Polanski Who’s got more? ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/2 "2014-12-27T16:15:10Z")
Dustin Diamond, AKA “Screech” from Saved By the Bell Not only is he generally known as a horrible douchebag, he’s[just been arrested](http://www.tmz.com/2014/12/26/saved-by-the-bell-dustin-diamond-arrested-switchblade/) for stabbing some guy at a bar in Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![Idilia\_Dubb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c2a13f/32.png) [@Idilia\_Dubb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idilia_Dubb)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/3 "2014-12-27T16:17:13Z")
Woody Allen. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/4 "2014-12-27T16:17:54Z")
Hemingway - misogynist, racist and lousy friend. Picasso - misogynist, ripped off other artists (see Braque, Cubism) Stephen Stills - a horrendous douchebag (walked up to McCartney in the late '60’s, telling Paul to play a “real bass” instead of the Hofner violin bass Macca was known for…) I suspect the list of awful, good artists is longer than artists who were noteworthy artists and also wonderful people… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/5 "2014-12-27T16:18:59Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Dustin Diamond, AKA “Screech” from Saved By the Bell > > Not only is he generally known as a horrible douchebag, he’s[just been arrested](http://www.tmz.com/2014/12/26/saved-by-the-bell-dustin-diamond-arrested-switchblade/) for stabbing some guy at a bar in Christmas. I have to respect Screech’s art? (seriously - I love Stephen Still’s guitar playing, and Picasso’s art, and _some_ of Hem’s writing, which is why I included them…) Jim Morrison was an awful jerk - but I have limited respect for his “art” so include him here a bit reluctantly 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/6 "2014-12-27T16:19:13Z")
Yeah, but I wouldn’t put him on the “amazing artist” category - at this point he’s more famous for being famous than for his acting. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/7 "2014-12-27T16:24:31Z")
Nowadays, it looks like Bill Cosby has to go on the list. ☹ His standup from back in the day was hilarious. Fat Albert & The Cosby Kids was quite possibly the best Saturday Morning Cartoon ever. The Cosby Show was groundbreaking and helped define the '80’s. And now…yeah. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/8 "2014-12-27T16:28:07Z")
I guess Mel Gibson would be a good candidate. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/9 "2014-12-27T16:29:28Z")
Just curious if the assholishness is confined to making their art (ie someone who is a difficult diva on a movie set or in the studio etc) and they don’t present as assholes in public are they still “terrible people”? ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/10 "2014-12-27T16:33:34Z")
Mmmm. Up to you on that - my personal criteria is “I really wish I didnt have to decide between giving money to that asshole and missing out on what they’ve created.” ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/11 "2014-12-27T16:37:29Z")
What’s wrong with Eminem? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/12 "2014-12-27T16:37:59Z")
I would add R. Kelly and Kanye to the list. I’m sure some will disagree, but I think both are undeniably great at their craft. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/13 "2014-12-27T16:39:05Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I have to respect Screech’s art? Sorry, I sort of interpreted the thread as “ **Celebrities** who are horrible people”. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/14 "2014-12-27T16:40:11Z")
Our 15 year old daughter is a huge Beatles fan. And she says **John Lennon** was a total jerk. I love me some **Ramones**. But they were all assholes. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/15 "2014-12-27T16:40:18Z")
That Hitler fellow did a few nice paintings along the lines of Thomas Kinkade. StG ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/16 "2014-12-27T16:44:09Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I would add R. Kelly and Kanye to the list. I’m sure some will disagree, but I think both are undeniably great at their craft. Good! I forgot about R. Kelly. Though I would put Kanye in the “eccentric genius” category (along with Prince) rather than horrible person. YMMV on that, though. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/17 "2014-12-27T16:45:11Z")
Stan Getz, jazz sax player extraordinaire. Brilliant, soulful, and an absolute horror to work with. Mean, selfish and intolerant. Did a brilliant collaboration with married musicians Joao and Astrud Gilberto, then slept with the wife. Frank Sinatra, nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/18 "2014-12-27T16:51:55Z")
Jimmy Page had an underage fuck toy for a long time. And all of Led Zeppelin has to be blamed for plagiarism. But they were talented. > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I love me some **Ramones**. But they were all assholes. I’ve never heard that. Johnny was an asshole _to Joey_, and perhaps the guy of guy I wouldn’t get along with, but I don’t think any of the Ramones were horrible people. What makes you say they were assholes? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/19 "2014-12-27T16:54:50Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Good! I forgot about R. Kelly. Though I would put Kanye in the “eccentric genius” category (along with Prince) rather than horrible person. YMMV on that, though. I was actually wavering on whether to put Kanye on the list or not for that reason. He’s more of a douchebag in public than anything truly horrible, but I decided to be liberal in my definition of “horrible,” as I can imagine others characterizing him that way. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/20 "2014-12-27T17:02:32Z")
. . . All of them? Seriously, it would make more sense to list artists I admire who are also genuinely good people. Just to throw out a few random examples: for almost all his life, John Lennon was a world class ass - violent, jealous, you name it. T.S. Eliot, perhaps my favorite poet, was an anti-Semite. Bob Dylan would belittle fellow folk artists who weren’t as talented as him, suggesting they change careers. George Orwell was likely a misogynist. Pablo Casals married a 20-year-old . . . when he was 80. Chuck Berry was indicated in possibly sexually assaulting a 14-year-old. The term “anti-Semite” doesn’t do Wagner justice; he was basically a pre-Nazi. Beethoven would throw instruments, chairs, and his baton at orchestra members. The list goes on. I’ve basically accepted that I will consume creative people’s work, enjoy it, and admire them for being good at composing/writing/painting/whatever; but extreme talent in that field is no reflection on their goodness as a human being. And that’s OK. Just because I like reading a guy’s book doesn’t mean he should be my idol. People are people. As long as it’s not a case like the lovely Orson Scott Card, where buying his products with help further his agenda, I try not to care about the personal views of celebrities. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283.md?page=2)