# Undeniably talented artists/performers who are also, undeniably, horrible people. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 27, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283 "2014-12-27T16:09:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/242 "2015-01-04T17:15:41Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > He is not just “talking about race.” He is making blatantly racist statements. Can you do me a favor and quote some of them? It’s a hard article to skim and I’ve got lots of kids running around… ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/243 "2015-01-04T17:49:44Z")
Scroll up. I did quote him. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/244 "2015-01-04T22:54:41Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > That’s where I saw it, and I can’t believe I never heard about it before. In that reddit thread, someone linked to [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KPJgtQwtVVA) sweet video of Jimi Hendrix ambushing Clapton on stage and then politely slaying him on the guitar. I didn’t know this happened either, but Lord Jesus it makes me so glad it did. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/245 "2015-01-04T23:34:47Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I’ve read pretty bad homophobic stuff from Orson Scott Card before, but the rounding up in concentration camps I hadn’t encountered. I see references to it online, but am having trouble tracking down the quote. Anyone know where it can be found? [OSC’s Wikipedia page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Scott_Card) has links to many things he wrote. I don’t know about the “concentration camp” quote, but [here’s an opinion piece](http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700245157/State-job-is-not-to-redefine-marriage.html?pg=all) where he called for the overthrow of the government for the mere suggestion that SSM be recognized legally. He takes his opposition of SSM to eleven and beyond. It is difficult for me to reconcile the OSC I’ve met, who was the life of the party and who hilariously skewered cliches, with the current OSC who has himself descend deeply into the cliche of the static, stodgy, bitter, hateful old scold. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/246 "2015-01-04T23:54:22Z")
> [@mack](#): > > From interviews I’ve read, Zappa’s sidemen generally speak fondly of their time in his band That’s a bias stat, since those are the musicians that _stuck with it_. The ones that couldn’t hack it (slackers, druggies, etc.) were quickly dismissed. From what I can gather, working for Zappa was… different compared to working for many other musicians. You had to show up on time _and work_. There was no screwing around; writing and practice sessions were very regimented, and Zappa was a disciplinarian who worked his (and your) ass off. Some people thrive in this type of environment, hence the reason for Zappa’s regular sidemen to speak fondly of him. Plus… you got a paycheck. Zappa was a reliable employer. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/247 "2015-01-05T00:02:54Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > In that reddit thread, someone linked to [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KPJgtQwtVVA) sweet video of Jimi Hendrix ambushing Clapton on stage and then politely slaying him on the guitar. I didn’t know this happened either, but Lord Jesus it makes me so glad it did. That’s great. Thanks for sharing. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/248 "2015-01-05T13:44:39Z")
I have enjoyed reading this thread. My view of what constitutes a horrible person is rather mundane. It is treating others around them in person as pieces of shit, being rude, difficult and so on. Anyway, Edmund Spenser does not fit my view of a horrible person, but he did advocate horrific policies in Ireland. I doubt there is much correlation between artistic talent and “niceness”. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/249 "2015-01-05T14:49:20Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I doubt there is much correlation between artistic talent and “niceness”. Oh, I don’t know about that. In sports I listed Barry Bonds as being one of the greatest baseball talents I’m likely ever to see, but he’s also a bonafide jerk. But then there are the Derek Jeters (baseball) and Steve Youngs (football) around and they are classy, nice people. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/250 "2015-01-05T16:25:36Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > [Eric Clapton](http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Eric_Clapton). > > What a douchebag. Here is the guitar “god” speaking onstage in 1976: > > In a 2004 interview in Uncut Magazine, he claimed that Enoch Powerll was “outrageously brave.” > > On the South Bank Show in 2007, Clapton stated that Powell’s views were not racist. Good lord. I wonder if this is what Pink Floyd was satyrizing in “The Wall”. It is a remarkably similar rant. Clapton's rant was in 1976; the Wall came out in 1979 ... ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/251 "2015-01-05T16:40:40Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > That’s a bias stat, since those are the musicians that _stuck with it_. The ones that couldn’t hack it (slackers, druggies, etc.) were quickly dismissed. > > From what I can gather, working for Zappa was… different compared to working for many other musicians. You had to show up on time _and work_. There was no screwing around; writing and practice sessions were very regimented, and Zappa was a disciplinarian who worked his (and your) ass off. Some people thrive in this type of environment, hence the reason for Zappa’s regular sidemen to speak fondly of him. Plus… you got a paycheck. Zappa was a reliable employer. That sounds like a professional musician not a horrible person. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/252 "2015-01-05T16:58:49Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Oh, I don’t know about that. In sports I listed Barry Bonds as being one of the greatest baseball talents I’m likely ever to see, but he’s also a bonafide jerk. But then there are the Derek Jeters (baseball) and Steve Youngs (football) around and they are classy, nice people. Yes, im sure there are plenty of great athletes and artists who are also great people. My point was that I don’t expect great athletes or artists be be nicer as a whole than the general population at large. The general population has its quota of great people, nice people, mediocre people and total jerks. The same rough quotas will exist amongst the artistic great community. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/253 "2015-01-05T17:08:05Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > In that reddit thread, someone linked to [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KPJgtQwtVVA) sweet video of Jimi Hendrix ambushing Clapton on stage and then politely slaying him on the guitar. I didn’t know this happened either, but Lord Jesus it makes me so glad it did. The story that goes with it is also a bit telling, if true. Supposedly, backstage after Hendrix performed, Clapton was shaking with anger and disbelief. Wtf? Great musicians are supposed to _enjoy_ jamming and playing with other talented musicians. Clapton saw it as an affront to his ego. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/254 "2015-01-05T17:59:56Z")
I’ve met Alton Brown and been a huge fan for years, and I think the reason a lot of people think he’s a prick is that his public persona makes it seem like he would be warm and personable in person, and he’s really not. That doesn’t make him a bad person–I just think interacting with strangers is a part of fame that he doesn’t care for and tires of quickly. He also appears to not be very good at making jokes off the cuff, which also doesn’t make him a bad person, though it means he really shouldn’t try to make jokes about race and sexuality and such. Ralph Stanley, bluegrass legend, is a huge prick. He stands out because everybody else in the world of bluegrass is just ridiculously nice–I attended and later worked at bluegrass shows for years and met most of the greats, and I can’t think of a single one who wasn’t completely warm and friendly to everybody. There are few people connected to bluegrass who don’t have a “Ralph Stanley was a prick to me” story, but they’re mostly too nice to tell it. I’m pretty sure Morrissey is the poster child for this thread. Every time he goes on tour these days it’s an endless parade of “Here’s how Moz was a douche today” stories (in between the cancellations). ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/255 "2015-01-05T18:44:48Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > The story that goes with it is also a\*\* bit telling, if true. \*\*Supposedly, backstage after Hendrix performed, Clapton was shaking with anger and disbelief. Wtf? Great musicians are supposed to _enjoy_ jamming and playing with other talented musicians. Clapton saw it as an affront to his ego. Im calling much of this bullshit. The video posted suggests Clapton was an admirer of Hendrix talent at the aftermath of the show. None of us were there so we are being fed all this by secondary sources. I can believe Clapton was pissed off at the showmanship of Hendrix. Until someone gets me tape recording of Clapton calling Hendrix by the N word im gonna assume artistic differences were the cause of any hard feelings on Clapton’s part. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/256 "2015-01-05T21:50:34Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Wtf? Great musicians are supposed to _enjoy_ jamming and playing with other talented musicians. Clapton saw it as an affront to his ego. Nonsense. Name me one example of someone who is considered and considers himself to be the best in the world feeling pleased and charitable when a newcomer ousts him from that position. It’s never happened, anywhere, any time, in any field, dating back to two dinosaurs butting heads in a Jurassic park. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/257 "2015-01-05T22:46:24Z")
Ezra Pound—America’s greatest poet—and also a fuckin’ fascist who gave aid and comfort to the enemy during the war. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/258 "2015-01-05T23:05:23Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Nonsense. Name me one example of someone who is considered and considers himself to be the best in the world feeling pleased and charitable when a newcomer ousts him from that position. > > It’s never happened, anywhere, any time, in any field, dating back to two dinosaurs butting heads in a Jurassic park. Which reminds me of the time [Jerry Lee Lewis and Chuck Berry got into a fistfight](http://www.shmoop.com/johnny-b-goode/calling-card.html) over who was the true king of rock and roll. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/259 "2015-01-06T00:44:25Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Which reminds me of the time [Jerry Lee Lewis and Chuck Berry got into a fistfight](http://www.shmoop.com/johnny-b-goode/calling-card.html) over who was the true king of rock and roll. Combative guy, J.L.L. He was practically the only male rock-‘n’-roller who Janis Joplin didn’t go to bed with. Instead, as soon as they met, he insulted her, they got into a fistfight, and she kicked his ass. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/260 "2015-01-06T00:47:00Z")
Sean Penn ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/261 "2015-01-06T01:16:44Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Im calling much of this bullshit. The video posted suggests Clapton was an admirer of Hendrix talent at the aftermath of the show. None of us were there so we are being fed all this by secondary sources. I can believe Clapton was pissed off at the showmanship of Hendrix. Until someone gets me tape recording of Clapton calling Hendrix by the N word im gonna assume artistic differences were the cause of any hard feelings on Clapton’s part. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Nonsense. Name me one example of someone who is considered and considers himself to be the best in the world feeling pleased and charitable when a newcomer ousts him from that position. > > It’s never happened, anywhere, any time, in any field, dating back to two dinosaurs butting heads in a Jurassic park. I guess with maturity comes wisdom. It seems like at least later in life Clapton has shown a great appreciation for other musicians. For years he has been singing the praises of Buddy Guy. He has recorded with B.B. King. He was playing gigs with Stevie Ray Vaughn and the last thing that SRV played was a jam session with Clapton, Buddy Guy, Robert Cray and Jimmie Vaughn. Or maybe he really was always that way since he shared guitar duties in Derek and the Dominos with one of the greatest of all time. And with that band they covered one of Jimi’s best. I’m no expert and can’t claim it’s true but according to Clapton he was supposed to meet Hendrix on the night he died. He says he was very good friends with Hendrix and had a left handed guitar he was going to give to Jimi. > [@](#): > > The next day, I heard that he had died. He had passed out, stoned on a mixture of booze and drugs, and choked on his own vomit. It was the first time the death of another musician really affected me. We had all felt obliterated when Buddy Holly died, but this was much more personal. I was incredibly upset and very angry, and was filled with a feeling of terrible loneliness… I went out in the garden and cried all day because he’d left me behind. Not because he’d gone, but because he hadn’t taken me with him. It just made me so fucking angry. I wasn’t sad, I was just pissed off. And many of the accounts about the first time they played together indicate that Clapton was awed not pissed off. “You didn’t tell me he was that fucking good!” I also see reports that Clapton and Hendrix played on stage together several times although the other performances were not recorded. None of those things about Clapton makes me believe he was angry at Hendrix for upstaging him. Everything I have seen makes me believe he enjoys playing with other great guitar players. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283.md?page=14)