# Undeniably talented artists/performers who are also, undeniably, horrible people. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 27, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283 "2014-12-27T16:09:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/262 "2015-01-06T01:19:02Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Which reminds me of the time [Jerry Lee Lewis and Chuck Berry got into a fistfight](http://www.shmoop.com/johnny-b-goode/calling-card.html) over who was the true king of rock and roll. Or maybe they were fighting over a 13 year old. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/263 "2015-01-06T05:18:57Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Nonsense. Name me one example of someone who is considered and considers himself to be the best in the world feeling pleased and charitable when a newcomer ousts him from that position. > > It’s never happened, anywhere, any time, in any field, dating back to two dinosaurs butting heads in a Jurassic park. “Who is the greatest guitar player in the world?” is fan bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/264 "2015-01-06T07:09:49Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > He didn’t become anything different than he was. He simply disagreed with your politics, which apparently is an unpardonable sin in your eyes. I don’t like his politics at all and I also thought he was a racist based on a comment he made in an interview. But after reading your comment I read his IMDB quotes. He seems to have a sense of humor about himself, to be rather modest and not at all racist. ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/265 "2015-01-06T07:11:59Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > What came to mind was this semi-viral email that went around in 2001, in which he unleashed lots of reactionary, disingenuous stuff. Again, it isn’t just a theoretical political argument. These kinds of things have real-world consequences. Maybe it had something to do with Alzheimer’s Disease. People can undergo a change in personality due to this. ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/266 "2015-01-06T07:36:48Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Maybe, or maybe not. Leaving political opinion aside, does anyone class Reagan as an \*undeniably \*talented actor? I liked him in Kings Row. I would class him as a competent actor. ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/267 "2015-01-06T08:14:08Z")
> [@Imasquare](#): > > I don’t like his politics at all and I also thought he was a racist based on a comment he made in an interview. But after reading your comment I read his IMDB quotes. He seems to have a sense of humor about himself, to be rather modest and not at all racist. I just finished reading those IMDB quotes. There’s a lot of crazy bigoted old man talk in there. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/268 "2015-01-06T16:01:18Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > “Who is the greatest guitar player in the world?” is fan bullshit. It may be to you, but that’s entirely irrelevant if it’s meaningful to the fans and the guitarist. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/269 "2015-01-06T21:38:18Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > As has been mentioned before, disagreeing with someone’s political viewpoints doesn’t make them a “horrible” person. Hopefully this won’t take it too much further into GD territory, but I think you’re wrong here. Pretty much everyone considers someone a horrible person because of their political viewpoints. You might think that about supporters of Stalin, or about Neo-Nazis, or Taliban supporters. You might think that about those who voted for Ralph Nader or David Duke. You might think that about Democrats or Republicans. In general, in a pluralistic society, it’s socially unacceptable to consider someone a horrible person for adopting a mainstream political position. But all the positions I mention in my third sentence above (Stalinists, Nazis, Taliban) were mainstream positions in some society at some point. So there’s nothing wrong **per se** with thinking that, say, members of the Segregationist Party were horrible people, or even thinking members of the Democratic or Republican Parties are horrible people. You need to make the case that they’re horrible people, of course, and others may agree or disagree–but it’s not an invalid position. Okay, my contribution (which I think hasn’t been mentioned so far): [Lead Belly](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_Belly), a blues musician possibly as famous for murder as for music. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/270 "2015-01-06T23:26:39Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It may be to you, but that’s entirely irrelevant if it’s meaningful to the fans and the guitarist. Well I’ve seen Hendrix quoted as saying that neither he nor Clapton were better than the other but only had different styles. Billy Gibbons toured with Hendrix early in his career and talks about how Hendrix loved playing with other guitar players and seeing what they could do. I have seen no quotes from Clapton that showed anything but admiration for Hendrix. If anything he believed Hendrix was better. And Clapton has had a career of sharing the stage with other great guitar players. So yeah, I think it’s fan bullshit. Unless we are talking about Yngwie. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/271 "2015-01-06T23:41:09Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Unless we are talking about **Yngwie**. [Speaking of which…](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=340999) ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/272 "2015-01-07T00:59:33Z")
Getting kinda meta, here, I rather like hearing that Rosa Parks was not very friendly, or that Martin Luther King Jr. cheated on his wife, or that [Gandhi was a racist.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/irene-monroe/the-gandhi-none-of-us-kne_b_842941.html) It helps remind me that you don’t have to be a plaster saint to do extrordinary things in the world, that great good can be done by ordinary, flawed, fallible human beings. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/273 "2015-01-07T05:54:54Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > A customer at my job claimed to be Stewart’s nephew. He said that Stewart had a big problem with him, solely because he (the nephew) was gay. As I stressed, that’s all I have, and it wouldn’t have occurred to me to add him to a list like this, but since his name came up… So, if I stop in your restaurant and claim that I am Joe Biden’s nephew and he hates me for the sole reason that I am an atheist, does Biden get added to your list? Assuming that your double hearsay was true, and that the customer who you didn’t know wasn’t embellishing the story (e.g. he was gay _and_ he stole money from his uncle and that was the real reason he disowned him) Jimmy Stewart was born in _1907_. It would be a rare person born in that time period who wouldn’t be disappointed if a family member was homosexual. Weak stuff. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/274 "2015-01-07T17:25:38Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Okay, my contribution (which I think hasn’t been mentioned so far): [Lead Belly](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_Belly), a blues musician possibly as famous for murder as for music. In his one homicide, it’s very unclear who was the aggressor. It certainly wasn’t premeditated murder; it was a fight. When he was imprisoned again, because he stabbed a white man (who survived), he was probably \*not \*the aggressor. But I guess I would agree he was probably a jerk, kind of hotheaded, selfish, and paranoid he was being financially rooked. But he lived a hard, hard life. ---
**Author:** ![BurnMeUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@BurnMeUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BurnMeUp)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/275 "2015-01-07T21:37:19Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I’ve read three or four books on **Zappa** (including his auto). I don’t know what to think of him, to be honest. Musical genius? Perhaps. But some of his fellow musicians claim he stole some of the music he claimed to have written. Asshole? Well, there’s no doubt he screwed around on Gail. And he had nothing but contempt for most others in the entertainment industry. But then again, there are those who worked with him who (even today) talk about him in glowing terms. So I dunno. In the WTF interview on WTF Moon didn’t paint him as the best father either. Not abusive in any way, just completely uninterested in the kids, until Dweezil learned to play guitar. She had very little to say good about him. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/276 "2015-01-08T00:58:47Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > So, if I stop in your restaurant and claim that I am Joe Biden’s nephew and he hates me for the sole reason that I am an atheist, does Biden get added to your list? > > Assuming that your double hearsay was true, and that the customer who you didn’t know wasn’t embellishing the story (e.g. he was gay _and_ he stole money from his uncle and that was the real reason he disowned him) Jimmy Stewart was born in _1907_. It would be a rare person born in that time period who wouldn’t be disappointed if a family member was homosexual. > > Weak stuff. I agree, that’s why I qualified it so much. ---
**Author:** ![Labor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Labor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labor)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/277 "2015-01-09T14:25:56Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > … The term “anti-Semite” doesn’t do Wagner justice; he was basically a pre-Nazi. Beethoven would throw instruments, chairs, and his baton at orchestra members. > > … I believe that batons were not used during the time Beethoven was alive, although I will agree that he behaved poorly. I have also excused it as he was probably finding a way to deal with his deafness. I will mention GF Handel, there seem to be numerous instances where he was unkind and genuinely mean to performers that didn’t meet his standard. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/278 "2015-01-09T16:53:48Z")
Robert Frost was a great poet and a real jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/279 "2015-01-09T17:41:19Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > Could I suggest celebrity sweary chef Gordon Ramsay. > > Undeniably a top-flight chef, but according to the tv and tattle mags a real Kyle Sandilands\* in the kitchen. The Hell’s Kitchen type shoutiness is apparently not reserved for when the camera are on. From what I understand, this is rather common when it comes to professional chefs. They have a reputation for being antisocial loudmouths. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/280 "2015-01-09T17:46:47Z")
Peter Cushing, his doggone unrelenting goodness & gentlemanliness just made everyone else look like total rotters by comparison. (I’m a big Cushing fan & am amazed that no one, anywhere, has found one thing negative to say about him.) ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/281 "2015-01-09T18:05:42Z")
For a new suggestion, how about Dennis Rodman? Great basketball player (and he looks great in a wedding dress 😉 ). He’s also BFFs with a certain repressive dictator. ETA: Axl Rose’s behavior has always struck me as being flat-out narcissistic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283.md?page=15)