# Undeniably talented artists/performers who are also, undeniably, horrible people. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 27, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283 "2014-12-27T16:09:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![lister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a5b964/32.png) [@lister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lister)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/302 "2015-02-19T07:52:01Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > Come on - really? I found this hard to believe myself but in the book “ **The PR strikes back** ” by Keith Altham who was a publicist for Joan Armatrading (among many other rock stars) Keith had this to say about her:’ “_Often sullen, bad tempered and unpredictable…your mood swings and hostility meant you were not exactly a bundle of fun to work with or represent_…” ---
**Author:** ![lister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a5b964/32.png) [@lister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lister)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/303 "2015-02-19T07:55:23Z")
> [@Athabasca](#): > > And Van Morrison has real issues with Richard Gere. ??? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/304 "2015-02-19T08:03:48Z")
> [@lister](#): > > I found this hard to believe myself but in the book “ **The PR strikes back** ” by Keith Altham who was a publicist for Joan Armatrading (among many other rock stars) Keith had this to say about her:’ > > “_Often sullen, bad tempered and unpredictable…your mood swings and hostility meant you were not exactly a bundle of fun to work with or represent_…” Way to miss the point. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/305 "2015-02-19T08:24:28Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Way to miss the point. Yep. My objection was not to the criticism of Joan Armatrading, whom I know little about. It was to the term “bull dyke,” which is horribly sexist and homophobic. ---
**Author:** ![Dustin\_the\_Wind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f1d935/32.png) [@Dustin\_the\_Wind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dustin_the_Wind)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/306 "2015-02-19T16:51:26Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I’ve always heard that Sammy Hagar isn’t one of the world’s most endearing people, either. He also wrote an autobiography wherein he made himself out to be (practically) a choir boy. ---
**Author:** ![lister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a5b964/32.png) [@lister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lister)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/307 "2015-02-21T09:12:46Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > Yep. My objection was not to the criticism of Joan Armatrading, whom I know little about. It was to the term “bull dyke,” which is horribly sexist and homophobic. It’s hard to gauge the tone sometimes but point taken. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/308 "2015-02-21T12:48:43Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Peter Cushing, his doggone unrelenting goodness & gentlemanliness just made everyone else look like total rotters by comparison. > > (I’m a big Cushing fan & am amazed that no one, anywhere, has found one thing negative to say about him.) You’ve probably already seen this, but after his beloved wife died Peter Cushing wrote into a BBC kid’s show called Jim’ll Fix It. Hosted by a now-acknowledged beast called Jimmy Saville, it was a wish fulfillment show “I want to fly in a plane”, “I want my mummy to have a nice day out” sort of thing. Peter asked if he could get a rose named after his wife. Here’s the video: [![](https://i.vimeocdn.com/video/285228819-b583990a41e20880dd94d31e01936290a30687f0b72bf1f9e1deabd589220050-d?f=webp "PETER CUSHING AND 'THE HELEN CUSHING ROSE'") ](https://vimeo.com/41199515) It’s lovely, and he was clearly a lovely man. Also, in many of the scenes of Grand Moff Tarkin in Star Wars, Cushing is wearing a nice comfortable pair of slippers, rather than the Imperial jackboots which hurt his feet dreadfully. :o ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/309 "2015-02-21T23:54:43Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > Yep. My objection was not to the criticism of Joan Armatrading, whom I know little about. It was to the term “bull dyke,” which is horribly sexist and homophobic. Not everybody knows that “bull dyke” is a sexist and homophobic term, especially since some lesbians have sought to reclaim the term “dyke” and use it to describe themselves. So while it’s good to let people know of the term’s associations, it’s not necessarily true that they are using the term out of sexism/homophobia, and probably safest to assume they are using it out of simple ignorance unless there are other cues that indicate it’s actual sexism/homophobia at work. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/310 "2015-02-22T22:00:11Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > The coworker lives in St. Louis, and it happened when Bonds was with the Pirates (therefore, before 1993). Bonds was a prima donna back then, maybe even a royal dickhead, He sure was. And if this happened when Bonds and Bonilla were still teammates, Bonds probably meant it not as a dis to the autograph seeker, but as a dis to Bonilla. Unfortunate that the autograph seeker had to get the worst of it. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/311 "2015-04-12T10:32:26Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Well there’s disliking someone’s politics and there’s thinking they’re war criminals. For example, I think Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and George W. Bush are war criminals and should be tried in the Hague for their crimes and if found guility, imprisoned for life or hung by the neck until dead. They were responsible for the unnecessary deaths of thousands of American servicemen and women, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. BTW, how’s that Afghanistan thing going? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/312 "2015-04-12T11:12:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I was born in a time when it was illegal for interracial couples to get married. Does that mean I’m entitled to still oppose interracial marriage in 2015? Society gets over its prejudices and I think it’s reasonable to expect individuals to keep up. I’d like to inform you that you are entitled to oppose anything that you like. Just because somebody doesn’t like, or even opposes, something that you love doesn’t make them any worse than you. ‘Society’ doesn’t get over it’s prejudices; it just changes them. Expecting individuals to keep up with ‘society’ is a pretty horrifying thing, in itself. Stalin had a “Great” plan to “Purge” those who couldn’t keep up with the People’s Will. Are you going to side with him? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/313 "2015-04-12T11:22:46Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Criminality on a grand scale deserves vilification. I, for one, fully agree with this. Can anybody tell me of a post that has to do with politicians? All I can find is that one about ‘Undeniably talented artists/performers’ etc… ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/314 "2015-04-12T13:15:20Z")
Two Words-- Diana Ross. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/315 "2015-04-12T16:07:44Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I’d like to inform you that you are entitled to oppose anything that you like. Just because somebody doesn’t like, or even opposes, something that you love doesn’t make them any worse than you. > ‘Society’ doesn’t get over it’s prejudices; it just changes them. > Expecting individuals to keep up with ‘society’ is a pretty horrifying thing, in itself. Stalin had a “Great” plan to “Purge” those who couldn’t keep up with the People’s Will. Are you going to side with him? Being a bigot is like being a criminal or a child molester. It’s objectively wrong and normal people don’t have to tolerate somebody’s choice to be these things. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/316 "2015-04-12T16:13:22Z")
I was reading about what Clint Eastwood did to Sandra Locke online and found it was verified in Wiki: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint\_Eastwood#Relationships](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Eastwood#Relationships) Some excerpts: He has been described as a “serial womanizer.” They lived together for nearly 14 years… while Locke was away directing the film Impulse, Eastwood had the locks changed on their Bel-Air home and ordered her possessions to be boxed and put in storage Locke described Eastwood as “a monster who thought nothing of destroying anything inconvenient to him.” ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/317 "2015-04-12T16:21:27Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Being a bigot is like being a criminal or a child molester. It’s objectively wrong and normal people don’t have to tolerate somebody’s choice to be these things. You don’t have to tolerate things people actually do. What they choose to believe? Well, your tolerating it or not means basically fuck-all if they commit no actions. What does a moral crusader such as yourself do about a celibate pedophile? A bigot who dislikes people of a certain race or ethnic group but, through choice or circumstance, does not discvriminate against them in daily life? It must suck to have to live in a world where you not only have to police what people do, but also what they think. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/318 "2015-04-12T18:02:53Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > BTW, how’s that Afghanistan thing going? In the case of Afghanistan, we at least had a provocation. The Taliban, which was the group responsible for 911, was openly operating training centers there. Bombing the hell out of their training centers would have sufficed IMHO, but at least under international law we had some cause to invade. Of course, the country we SHOULD have invaded, if we were going to invade any country (not justified IMHO, the Taliban is a criminal terrorist organization, not a nation state) is Saudi Arabia. That’s where Bin Laden was from, THAT’S where most of the 911 terrorists were from, THAT’S where a lot of the economic and logistical support for 911 came from. But of course … they’re our FRIENDS. Iraq was pure, unprovoked aggression. A war crime. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/319 "2015-04-12T19:17:33Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > In the case of Afghanistan, we at least had a provocation. The Taliban, which was the group responsible for 911, was openly operating training centers there. Bombing the hell out of their training centers would have sufficed IMHO, but at least under international law we had some cause to invade. > > Of course, the country we SHOULD have invaded, if we were going to invade any country (not justified IMHO, the Taliban is a criminal terrorist organization, not a nation state) is Saudi Arabia. That’s where Bin Laden was from, THAT’S where most of the 911 terrorists were from, THAT’S where a lot of the economic and logistical support for 911 came from. But of course … they’re our FRIENDS. > > Iraq was pure, unprovoked aggression. A war crime. First off, the Taliban was the de facto government of Afghanistan. It was indeed a country at the time. Second, it was Al Quaeda that was the organization responsible for the 9-11 attacks. They were being given aid and comfort and a place to stay by the Taliban regime. We offered the Taliban the chance to cooperate and give them up willingly without an invasion and they refused. Third, though members of the Saudi royal family indeed funded Al Quaeda, their direct rulers did not. And Saudi Arabia is balanced on a knife’s edge. Though their king is a friend of the US, a sizable portion of the population is radicalized by the Wahhabi imams and if we deposed the royal family the most likely result is a radical Islamic state that would not only be our open enemies but whose existence would severely jeopardize the oil supply coming out of the region. And last, of course, starting even an unjustified war is not a war crime. Germany wasn’t guilty of war crimes for starting WWII, their leaders were guilty of war crimes for their ACTIONS during he war, including the genocide of Jews, Romani, homosexuals, etc…and their treatment of civilians in the countries they invaded. Japan wasn’t guilty of war crimes because they invaded China and Korea and went to war with the US, their leaders and generals were guilty of war crimes because they slaughtered Chinese and Korean civilians deliberately and performed medical experiments on US and other Allied POWs. Starting a war that some people don’t think is justified is not a war crime. It may be evil or it may be misguided or it may just be a difference of opinion, but the term “war crime” has a definition and you’re cheapening it. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/320 "2015-04-12T19:22:14Z")
I’d second Dennis Miller. He’s savagely attacked his detractors simply for disagreeing with him, and I personally have the idea that he pretty much ripped off Bill Hicks’ act, persona, and many of the man’s jokes. He may have talent, but as an artist, he’s a ripoff artist, and worse, one who made his career dancing on the grave of a man far more original and talented than he. The idea that someone would divorce his wife while she was recovering from cancer surgery pretty much nailed down my opinion of Newt Gingrich, regardless of his political ideas. They debate to this DAY that he tried to get her to sign papers in her sickbed; perhaps this is not true. But I’m convinced he chose to ditch her during one of the lowest points in her life, which convinces me of what kind of guy he is. Orson Scott Card’s convicted himself out of his own mouth. I would go so far as to say that if I’m paying money to attend an entertainment event, I don’t give a rat about your political, religious, or social beliefs. I came to see a show. And if you’re going to insist on rattling on about your personals, this means you have robbed me, to some extent. If much of what they say about Bill Cosby is true, he practically rates burning at the stake. And I hope it’s true, because if it ain’t, the man’s life has been shat on irredeemably in his twilight years. Many people have spoken out about what a control freak and general ass Frank Zappa was. I like his stuff, but I sure wouldn’t have wanted to work with him in any capacity. Trouble with this whole idea is that quite a few performers can be VIEWED as assholes based on isolated incidents. The one time I met Dustin Hoffman, he struck me as terrified, but that’s because he found himself trapped in a room with ME, and he had NO idea what I might do; I understand that famous people get that a lot. Therefore, the fact that he fled to his limo and sped off is not enough to convince me of his actual cowardice. Well, that, and I imagine I WAS kinda scary looking. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/321 "2015-04-12T20:12:13Z")
> [@Master\_Wang-Ka](#): > > I’d second Dennis Miller. He’s savagely attacked his detractors simply for disagreeing with him, and I personally have the idea that he pretty much ripped off Bill Hicks’ act, persona, and many of the man’s jokes. He may have talent, but as an artist, he’s a ripoff artist, and worse, one who made his career dancing on the grave of a man far more original and talented than he. Are you trying to say Dennis Leary? Dennis Miller hosted his own TV show before Hicks got into comedy and was on SNL for four years before Hicks released an album. It’s impossible that he ripped off his style from Hicks. I find them both overrated and unfunny but let’s not bend the timestream here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283.md?page=17)