# Undeniably talented artists/performers who are also, undeniably, horrible people. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 27, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283 "2014-12-27T16:09:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/322 "2015-04-12T21:31:02Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Are you trying to say Dennis Leary? Dennis Miller hosted his own TV show before Hicks got into comedy and was on SNL for four years before Hicks released an album. It’s impossible that he ripped off his style from Hicks. I find them both overrated and unfunny but let’s not bend the timestream here. Whoopsie. Well, I know who I MEANT, durnit. Must be YOUR fault, for not KNOWING that… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/323 "2015-04-13T02:29:26Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > Beethoven would throw instruments, chairs, and his baton at orchestra members. So did my high school orchestra teacher, who was otherwise an “undeniably talented” music teacher. That didn’t quite make him a horrible person. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/324 "2015-04-13T02:42:07Z")
Haven’t read the entire thread, so don’t know whether anyone’s mentioned [Shirley MacLaine](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2951513/Outcry-Shirley-MacLaine-asks-Holocaust-victims-paying-sins-past-lives-Comments-attacked-offensive-wrong-Jewish-campaigners.html), and her belief that Holocaust victims may have brought their fate upon themselves. Stephen Hawking, too. She was one of my favorite actresses; now I’ll never again watch anything she’s in. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/325 "2015-04-13T14:48:06Z")
John C. Wright’s _Golden Age_ trilogy is a fantastically inventive tour de force. The world he created was thoroughly alien yet entirely accessible. He depicts an immensely diverse and tolerant society. A rarity for hard SF, he acknowledges the existence of the poor and the need for society to provide for them. And yet in the recent Hugo controversy, he’s made clear that he is a virulent homophobe along the lines of Card. It’s a shock to me and a terrible disappointment. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/326 "2015-04-13T21:41:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Being a bigot is like being a criminal or a child molester. It’s objectively wrong and normal people don’t have to tolerate somebody’s choice to be these things. Don’t disagree with the “objectively wrong” part but the wrongness of bigotry – even in some cases the fact that it was bigotry – wasn’t always recognized. Time was people who believed germ theory were dangerous quacks, even though the theory is objectively correct. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/327 "2015-04-13T21:58:31Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Not everybody knows that “bull dyke” is a sexist and homophobic term, especially since some lesbians have sought to reclaim the term “dyke” and use it to describe themselves. So while it’s good to let people know of the term’s associations, it’s not necessarily true that they are using the term out of sexism/homophobia, and probably safest to assume they are using it out of simple ignorance unless there are other cues that indicate it’s actual sexism/homophobia at work. “Dyke” as a gay slur ain’t exactly obscure knowledge. I’d expect most adults who are native English speakers to understand what the term means and how it’s likely to be received by the people in describes. Folks using it out of genuine ignorance are going to be a rarity. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/328 "2015-04-15T20:22:41Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Haven’t read the entire thread, so don’t know whether anyone’s mentioned [Shirley MacLaine](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2951513/Outcry-Shirley-MacLaine-asks-Holocaust-victims-paying-sins-past-lives-Comments-attacked-offensive-wrong-Jewish-campaigners.html), and her belief that Holocaust victims may have brought their fate upon themselves. Stephen Hawking, too. > She was one of my favorite actresses; now I’ll never again watch anything she’s in. Wow. That _is_ some impressively-brainless (and offensive) stuff coming out of Miss MacLaine: > [@](#): > > The veteran Hollywood actress suggests the six million Jews and millions of others systematically murdered in Hitler’s death camps in the 1940s were ‘balancing their karma’ for crimes committed in past lives. > > She also suggests that cosmologist Professor Stephen Hawking may have subconsciously given himself his debilitating motor neurone disease. ---
**Author:** ![Annoying\_Buzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Annoying\_Buzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoying_Buzz)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/329 "2015-06-05T01:55:34Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Warren Zevon was extremely talented, but by most accounts he was also a total pain in the ass. I’m not sure I would call him a horrible person, but he had a lot of mental issues and demons he wrestled with. It seemed he was aware of how he (mis)treated others, as he called himself a horrible person in several of his songs. Great artist, but I’d never want to be more than a casual acquaintance of his. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/330 "2015-06-05T04:28:22Z")
> [@Annoying\_Buzz](#): > > It seemed he was aware of how he (mis)treated others, as he called himself a horrible person in several of his songs. Great artist, but I’d never want to be more than a casual acquaintance of his. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by Jimmy Wachtel > > “To be honest, he was the same asshole, drunk or sober, so there wasn’t that much difference except he didn’t repeat himself as much.” tc ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/331 "2015-06-05T04:31:41Z")
I recently saw a documentary called “Beware of Mr. Baker”, about Ginger Baker, the drummer for Cream and Blind Faith (among others) and ZOMG what a jerkwad! :eek: Every project and relationship he’s ever been in has failed largely because of him, and he knows this AND IS PROUD OF IT! I did finish the movie, but it wasn’t easy to watch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283.md?page=16)