# Undeniably talented artists/performers who are also, undeniably, horrible people. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 27, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283 "2014-12-27T16:09:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/41 "2014-12-27T18:25:12Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > That doesn’t mean he wasn’t a prick. He was married to possibly two other women at the time of the affair, one of whom he married in Sweden while on the run from a narcotics addiction after attempting to rob a pharmacy for morphine. It’s not clear if he ever divorced his first wife. Zoot Sims once called him “a nice bunch of guys”, meaning that his moods were all over the place. Which reminds me. Wiki in Spanish, and I imagine most of you won’t know him, but one of Spain’s most famous comic book writers/artists, [Vázquez](http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_V%C3%A1zquez_Gallego), got married seven times by his own count, had children with several other women and went to prison for bigamy (the wiki downplays all this a lot and claims there is no proof that he was ever in prison). I met him when I was in college (him in his 50s) and he tried to hit on me, but then, he was a strong believer in “it doesn’t matter how many times you strike out, just how many you strike in.” ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/42 "2014-12-27T18:29:31Z")
I don’t know much more about their actual history apart from what was dramatized in the biopic "Frida. "But if that movie is even remotely accurate, Frida Kahlo and Diego Riviera were both nasty jerks. Frank Zappa is undoubtedly one of the most talented and brilliant musicians ever to work in rock music - but I’ve never seen him in anything that didn’t suggest he was a snotty, self-absorbed, loud-mouthed prick. Fritz Lang was reputedly a nightmare to have to work with, or just be around. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/43 "2014-12-27T18:32:38Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Charlton Heston, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Stewart, and Dennis Miller. Heston? You cray-cray. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/44 "2014-12-27T18:34:12Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Charlton Heston, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Stewart, and Dennis Miller. Disagreeing with someone’s politics doesn’t make them a horrible person, no matter what you may have convinced yourself of. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/45 "2014-12-27T18:41:04Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Heston? You cray-cray. Are you serious? He was quite the bigoted reactionary. I haven’t listened to Regina Spektor since she expressed approval of Operation Cast Lead. Israel will automatically give her citizenship, they would love to have her, and yet she sits in Brooklyn approving of their expansionism, no matter who happens to be in the way. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/46 "2014-12-27T18:44:05Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Are you serious? He was quite the bigoted reactionary. > . LOL! Yeah, a “bigoted reactionary” who marched for Civil Rights in the 60s. You’re so painfully transparent… ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/47 "2014-12-27T18:51:45Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Disagreeing with someone’s politics doesn’t make them a horrible person, no matter what you may have convinced yourself of. No, but that’s not the reason, at least not for me, though it wasn’t my post originally. I already mentioned Heston. Reagan was a war criminal, in case turning Nicaragua, Guatemala, El Salvador, and (to a lesser extent) Honduras into killing fields bothers you. There’s also the matter of Angola, cozying up to the Argentine generals (Kirkpatrick and Haig wanted the US to support them in the Falklands), supporting the Khmer Rouge to get back at Vietnam, South Africa, criminal inaction re: AIDS (despite opposing homophobic ballot measures in the past), claiming that the Americans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade fought on the wrong side of the Spanish Civil War, Bitburg, kickstarting the neoliberalism that continues to erode the middle class, contributing to the disassembly of Yugoslavia, and so much more. Jimmy Stewart: All I can say about him is a customer at my job, remarking that Stewart was his uncle, who had a serious problem with this man’s homosexuality. That’s all I have. Dennis Miller: Jingoist jerk. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/48 "2014-12-27T18:53:40Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Good! I forgot about R. Kelly. Though I would put Kanye in the “eccentric genius” category (along with Prince) rather than horrible person. YMMV on that, though. Prince is an eccentric genius. Kanye is eccentric. Opinions may vary about the genius part. That may just be my age showing though, since Prince is much closer to it than Kanye. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/49 "2014-12-27T18:53:53Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > LOL! Yeah, a “bigoted reactionary” who marched for Civil Rights in the 60s. You’re so painfully transparent… I’m referring to what he became, by the early 2000s. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/50 "2014-12-27T18:56:24Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > To me, the level of misogyny and homophobia he’s expressed puts him firmly in the “asshole” category. YMMV, of course. > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > But he’s just being an _entertainer_, you know. It’s all a _put on_. You weren’t supposed to take it _seriously_. But “Eminem,” and “Slim Shady” for that matter, _are_ characters to him. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/51 "2014-12-27T18:56:27Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Are you serious? He was quite the bigoted reactionary. > > . I think some research is in order, and no, that POS Michael Moore movie is not an acceptable source. Yes, Heston was head of the NRA for awhile. Personally I believe that an entrenched adversarial organization is a good thing in Constitutional debates…though I think the NRA takes it too far these days. I’m certainly not going to damn Chuck for some questionable decisions in his dotage and Alzheimer’s years. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/52 "2014-12-27T18:57:51Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > No, but that’s not the reason, at least not for me, though it wasn’t my post originally. > > I already mentioned Heston. You already mis-characterized Heston, you mean. > [@](#): > > Reagan was a war criminal, in case turning Nicaragua, Guatemala, El Salvador, and (to a lesser extent) Honduras into killing fields bothers you. There’s also the matter of Angola, cozying up to the Argentine generals (Kirkpatrick and Haig wanted the US to support them in the Falklands), supporting the Khmer Rouge to get back at Vietnam, South Africa, criminal inaction re: AIDS (despite opposing homophobic ballot measures in the past), claiming that the Americans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade fought on the wrong side of the Spanish Civil War, Bitburg, kickstarting the neoliberalism that continues to erode the middle class, contributing to the disassembly of Yugoslavia, and so much more. So much more that you continue to mischaracterize and personally blame him for that was not his doing. It all boils down to the fact that you didn’t like his politics so he must be bad. It’s incredibly immature and simplistic thinking. Just because someone doesn’t share your outlook on the world doesn’t make them a bad person. > [@](#): > > Jimmy Stewart: All I can say about him is a customer at my job, remarking that Stewart was his uncle, who had a serious problem with this man’s homosexuality. That’s all I have. That’s third hand and pretty weak. > [@](#): > > Dennis Miller: Jingoist jerk. Again, immature internalization of political differences. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/53 "2014-12-27T18:59:38Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > I’m referring to what he became, by the early 2000s. He didn’t become anything different than he was. He simply disagreed with your politics, which apparently is an unpardonable sin in your eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/54 "2014-12-27T19:02:50Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > He didn’t become anything different than he was. He simply disagreed with your politics, which apparently is an unpardonable sin in your eyes. All of this is not a question of simply politics. These are issues of morality. Wanting to take away rights from my gay friends is immoral. Cheering for aggression and imperialism, or worse, bringing it about, is even worse. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/55 "2014-12-27T19:07:23Z")
I would include Bono and Bob Geldof, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/56 "2014-12-27T19:11:50Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > I would include Bono and Bob Geldof, by the way. Include them as what? ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/57 "2014-12-27T19:20:29Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Include them as what? People who I’m tempted to refer to as horrible, even if they are talented and well-intentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/58 "2014-12-27T19:21:07Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > All of this is not a question of simply politics. These are issues of morality. Wanting to take away rights from my gay friends is immoral. Cheering for aggression and imperialism, or worse, bringing it about, is even worse. My super-cursory research on Heston and Gay Rights would seem to point out that he had ‘complicated’ views. Sounds to me like your gay friends have just latched onto some superficial image of Heston as being this Great White Republican Adversary. Regardless, I would think he doesn’t remotely qualify as ‘Undeniably Horrible’ ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/59 "2014-12-27T19:22:22Z")
It would also make an interesting thread to list folks who have redeemed themselves. I’m thinking of the Beastie Boys. Even so, perhaps it belongs in a different thread. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/60 "2014-12-27T19:23:46Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > People who I’m tempted to refer to as horrible, even if they are talented and well-intentioned. How come? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283.md?page=4)