# Undeniably talented artists/performers who are also, undeniably, horrible people. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 27, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283 "2014-12-27T16:09:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/61 "2014-12-27T19:24:53Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > My super-cursory research on Heston and Gay Rights would seem to point out that he had ‘complicated’ views. Sounds to me like your gay friends have just latched onto some superficial image of Heston as being this Great White Republican Adversary. > > Regardless, I would think he doesn’t remotely qualify as ‘Undeniably Horrible’ What came to mind was this semi-viral email that went around in 2001, in which he unleashed lots of reactionary, disingenuous stuff. Again, it isn’t just a theoretical political argument. These kinds of things have real-world consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/62 "2014-12-27T19:26:06Z")
Everyone I’ve know who worked with Paul Simon agrees he is a total douchebag. Big talent, but a ghastly human being. Roald Dahl stumbled into being a published writer, and by all accounts was not a nice human being. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/63 "2014-12-27T19:27:26Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > People who I’m tempted to refer to as horrible, even if they are talented and well-intentioned. Bono??? ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/64 "2014-12-27T19:45:31Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Alton Brown is reportedly a massive jerk and there are reports of him being [a racist and homophone](https://cleanplatter.wordpress.com/2011/09/18/the-taste-of-disillusionment/) as well. He may be both a big racist and a big grey cyst, but not based on that blogger’s experience. Brown was poking fun at the homogeneity (and presumed conservative nature) of his audience, not at any minority population. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/65 "2014-12-27T19:51:25Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Bono??? He’s history’s greatest monster. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/66 "2014-12-27T20:01:38Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > But “Eminem,” and “Slim Shady” for that matter, _are_ characters to him. I was referring to the general trope, referenced in another thread recently, of spokesbeings - people who take a particular, often loud and obnoxious, if not downright insane position in public, and have some expectation of being taken seriously on that level - who get cornered on something particularly stupid, wrong, overly obnoxious or out of step with a current audience, and then lamely say it was just an act, or just meant to be entertainment, or whatever. Rush Limbaugh has particularly worked this one to death. To his audience, he is (or maybe was) a Hard-Hitting Rightist Commentator. When he’s called on some of his BS, he hauls out the “I’m just an entertainer” shield. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/67 "2014-12-27T20:02:35Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What’s weird about that story is that the go-to anecdote about how terrible Stephen Stills is, is a time he criticized a guitar. Is that the worst thing he did? Because it sounds like small change compared to the company in this thread. Yeah, my story about Stills being a weenie to Paul is small beans - sorry. I use it as shorthand in my own mind about how full of himself he had become. I started a thread about how CSN are the acoustic Motley Crue here: [Because CSN are basically the acoustic Motley Crue, that's why - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=730455) There’s a bit of Stills’ yukkiness in there… ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/68 "2014-12-27T20:07:44Z")
I’m going to toss Robert Heinlein into this pot. Throughout his life he was an opinionated, stiff-necked, judgmental bastard under a veneer of Gentleman. For every story about his kindness to, say, Philip K. Dick (sent him a typewriter, some money and a list of story ideas) there are many more people he cut dead because of a real or imagined slight. Once you were on that shitlist, you never, ever came off. He could be polite, publicly, as he was to Clarke after the very public scorching for daring to disagree, but it was a one-way, one-time judgment that wounded or even wrecked many people over Heinlein’s life. For those who are going to speak up about some kind act or graciousness, a la PKD, it really came down to this: if Heinlein didn’t have any irons in a shared fire, he could be very tolerant of many things. If you came on his ground, you effin’ better well be in agreement or to the shitlist you would go. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/69 "2014-12-27T20:10:54Z")
Eminem performed with Elton John at the Grammy’s… ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/70 "2014-12-27T20:14:04Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Bono??? > [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > He’s history’s greatest monster. He’s the [world’s biggest turd](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Crap). ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/71 "2014-12-27T20:18:21Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > How come? This is the abbreviated version, inasmuch as I am at work right now. In 2005, at Live 8 (“The Day the Music Failed”), Bono and Geldof apparently had a policy that they didn’t want anybody to criticize Bush or Blair from the stage. By itself, that doesn’t mean much, but it illustrates a much larger point about those two musicians/activists. They seem to believe, and worse, perpetuate, this idea that much of the trouble in the world is just an accident of fate, or it’s the work of marginal rogues, and surely responsibility couldn’t lie with the actions of the most powerful people and institutions in the world. This serves to deflect so much potentially revolutionary effort into a direction that isn’t even really tepid reformism. It accomplishes nothing much, is a tremendous waste, and, I fear, makes the “Overton Window” even narrower. At least with bullies like Gene Simmons and Ted Nugent, who kiss up to power and privilege and scorn all those who lack such privilege, you know where you stand. I want to believe that Bono and Geldof have good intentions, but I wonder if they are delusional. Bono has praised Noam Chomsky, and has (I think) gotten to know the members of Rage Against the Machine, and yet he acts to effectively hamstring the possibility of dismantling the institutions that such folks rage against. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/72 "2014-12-27T20:18:37Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > That Hitler fellow did a few nice paintings along the lines of Thomas Kinkade. > > StG That fascist asshole was certainly a terrible person, but his art was awful crap too, so no good for the “undeniable talent” requested here. Same goes for Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/73 "2014-12-27T20:19:49Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Eminem performed with Elton John at the Grammy’s… And they remain friends to this day. Eminem even credits Elton with helping him finally kick his drug addiction for good due to the weekly phone conversations they used to have. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/74 "2014-12-27T20:20:45Z")
nm. Accidental double post. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/75 "2014-12-27T20:32:51Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > And they remain friends to this day. Eminem even credits Elton with helping him finally kick his drug addiction for good due to the weekly phone conversations they used to have. It’s been said that this may be a case of an artist speaking through a character, rather than their own sentiments. Speaking of political disagreement not necessarily equating to horribleness, it doesn’t much bother me that Billy Corgan seems to have fallen under Alex Jones’s sway. Jones is a fairly marginal character whose own politics are fairly syncretic, and it all just adds up to a bunch of blather. I wish Iron Maiden wouldn’t wave the Union Jack, but their lyrics and other statements make it clear that they are not jingoists. There are other examples, like Peter Garrett’s tepidly reformist activities in his post-Midnight Oil legislative career. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/76 "2014-12-27T20:42:33Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > This is the abbreviated version, inasmuch as I am at work right now. > > In 2005, at Live 8 (“The Day the Music Failed”), Bono and Geldof apparently had a policy that they didn’t want anybody to criticize Bush or Blair from the stage. By itself, that doesn’t mean much, but it illustrates a much larger point about those two musicians/activists. They seem to believe, and worse, perpetuate, this idea that much of the trouble in the world is just an accident of fate, or it’s the work of marginal rogues, and surely responsibility couldn’t lie with the actions of the most powerful people and institutions in the world. > > This serves to deflect so much potentially revolutionary effort into a direction that isn’t even really tepid reformism. It accomplishes nothing much, is a tremendous waste, and, I fear, makes the “Overton Window” even narrower. > > At least with bullies like Gene Simmons and Ted Nugent, who kiss up to power and privilege and scorn all those who lack such privilege, you know where you stand. I want to believe that Bono and Geldof have good intentions, but I wonder if they are delusional. Bono has praised Noam Chomsky, and has (I think) gotten to know the members of Rage Against the Machine, and yet he acts to effectively hamstring the possibility of dismantling the institutions that such folks rage against. If I recall, Geldof and Bush worked closely to bring historic amounts of food and support to Africa. I can understand if Geldof didn’t want to be associated with attacking Bush, given their relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/77 "2014-12-27T20:43:19Z")
> [@JKilez](#): > > He may be both a big racist and a big grey cyst, but not based on that blogger’s experience. Brown was poking fun at the homogeneity (and presumed conservative nature) of his audience, not at any minority population. The writer of that blog post was 23 years old, and despite being a fanboy of Alton, didn’t have a grasp of dry sense of humor. I’ve never heard Alton was a jerk, so I need to see a lot more evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/78 "2014-12-27T20:54:14Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > Frank Zappa is undoubtedly one of the most talented and brilliant musicians ever to work in rock music - but I’ve never seen him in anything that didn’t suggest he was a snotty, self-absorbed, loud-mouthed prick. I’ve read three or four books on **Zappa** (including his auto). I don’t know what to think of him, to be honest. Musical genius? Perhaps. But some of his fellow musicians claim he stole some of the music he claimed to have written. Asshole? Well, there’s no doubt he screwed around on Gail. And he had nothing but contempt for most others in the entertainment industry. But then again, there are those who worked with him who (even today) talk about him in glowing terms. So I dunno. From what I’ve read, though, Zappa was saintly compared to **Captain Beefheart**. He was very abusive toward others in his group, both physically and psychologically. By contrast, Zappa wasn’t abusive toward anyone. He was just _ **very** _ business-like with the musicians who worked for him. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/79 "2014-12-27T21:01:32Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > So much more that you continue to mischaracterize and personally blame him for that was not his doing. It all boils down to the fact that you didn’t like his politics so he must be bad. It’s incredibly immature and simplistic thinking. Just because someone doesn’t share your outlook on the world doesn’t make them a bad person. Well there’s disliking someone’s politics and there’s thinking they’re war criminals. For example, I think Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and George W. Bush are war criminals and should be tried in the Hague for their crimes and if found guility, imprisoned for life or hung by the neck until dead. They were responsible for the unnecessary deaths of thousands of American servicemen and women, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. Now that’s a WEE bit different from thinking they shouldn’t have been giving tax breaks to the rich. I think they were FUCKING EVIL HUMAN BEINGS and DESERVE to be subject to some stringent justice. If the poster has evidence of the same sort about Reagan, and you know damn well there’s plenty, he’s entitled to think they are evil. What he can’t call them is talented artists. Reagan was a competent B-grade actor at best. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/80 "2014-12-27T21:08:09Z")
**Mozart** > [@Idilia\_Dubb](#): > > Mozart was an immature jerk with a scatology fetish. Is this historical fact? I know it’s how he was depicted in _Amadeus_, but as I understand it that film plays _very_ fast and loose with the facts. Not challenging you- I’m genuinely curious. **Zappa** > [@Don\_Draper](#): > > Frank Zappa is undoubtedly one of the most talented and brilliant musicians ever to work in rock music - but I’ve never seen him in anything that didn’t suggest he was a snotty, self-absorbed, loud-mouthed prick. I couldn’t agree with you more. I’m a _huge_ fan of Zappa’s music from 1965 to 1975, have respected and enjoyed his musicianship for 46 years. But I would never have wanted to be in the same room with him. A consumnate narcissistic asshole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283.md?page=5)