# Undeniably talented artists/performers who are also, undeniably, horrible people. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 27, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283 "2014-12-27T16:09:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/101 "2014-12-28T00:45:45Z")
Johnny Carson was reported a cold, standoffish prick offstage, as well as being a notorious womanizer. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/102 "2014-12-28T00:48:28Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > I know that… Sigh. If only. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/103 "2014-12-28T00:48:52Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > I’m actually pretty curious about that. Although I wouldn’t put it past him, based on such things as the transition he made from civil rights activist to defender of privilege, complaining about the phantom specter of “reverse discrimination” and other such nonsense. As soon as the tide started to turn, and people like that started to see privilege as a zero-sum game in which they were losing out, they started complaining about “political correctness” and so on. Yeah, that’s pretty horrible. so you don’t know, yet you formed a judgement about him. and now you’re reaching. got it. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/104 "2014-12-28T00:49:28Z")
> [@Idilia\_Dubb](#): > > Mozart wrote a series of salacious letters to his girl cousin. The most notorious is excerpted here: > [Mozart's Dirty Love Letter To His Cousin: 'Oh My Ass Burns Like Fire!' | HuffPost Culture](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/05/mozart-dirty-letters_n_1651332.html) > His coprophilia is well documented. Just google “Mozart scatology” and you’ll find lots of material. The letters to his cousin are excruciating to read. All I think of to say in his defense is that Lil Wolfie was the 18th-century version of a child star and child stars, as we know, seldom turn out well. Ignorance fought. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/105 "2014-12-28T00:54:42Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > so you don’t know, yet you formed a judgement about him. and now you’re reaching. > > got it. No, I did some checking, and it seemed perfectly in character. Even if those weren’t his words, which they probably were, he said much the same thing on many other occasions. I found it wasn’t a reach at all. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/106 "2014-12-28T00:56:11Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > so you don’t know, yet you formed a judgement about him. and now you’re reaching. > > got it. The guy thinks fucking BONO is an undeniably horrible person because one time when it was completely appropriate to do so, he asked people performing at a fund-raising concert he was part of organizing to not turn into a political bash-fest. You REALLY expect him to be fair to someone who is on the opposite political spectrum from him? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/107 "2014-12-28T00:56:15Z")
The Count from Sesame Street. Great public educator, sold biker meth to kids. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/108 "2014-12-28T01:02:50Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > The guy thinks fucking BONO is an undeniably horrible person because one time when it was completely appropriate to do so, he asked people performing at a fund-raising concert he was part of organizing to not turn into a political bash-fest. > You REALLY expect him to be fair to someone who is on the opposite political spectrum from him? I already said that the bit about not criticizing Bush and Blair is, by itself, not a big deal. It _demonstrates_ a great deal more about the man’s complete and utter lack of integrity. If it wasn’t present before, it was definitely there after Live Aid. There’s a great Jello Biafra spoken-word piece called “Names For Bands”, which I think was recorded (for the most part) as early as 1987, in which he suggests “Bono’s Charred Remains” as a band name. The punk rockers in the audience all cheer. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/109 "2014-12-28T01:06:36Z")
When you’re in a hole, it’s a damned good time to stop digging, brother. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/110 "2014-12-28T01:07:20Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > I already said that the bit about not criticizing Bush and Blair is, by itself, not a big deal. It _demonstrates_ a great deal more about the man’s complete and utter lack of integrity. If it wasn’t present before, it was definitely there after Live Aid. There’s a great Jello Biafra spoken-word piece called “Names For Bands”, which I think was recorded (for the most part) as early as 1987, in which he suggests “Bono’s Charred Remains” as a band name. The punk rockers in the audience all cheer. “punk rockers” were trolls before trolling was a thing. You’re out of your element, Donnie. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/111 "2014-12-28T01:14:42Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > “punk rockers” were trolls before trolling was a thing. You’re out of your element, Donnie. The best punks did much more than troll, and they still do today. They culture-jammed. I’m thinking of how awesome it would be if, say, Crass had still been around, and had managed to subvert Bono and Geldof’s preening. Actually, come to think of it, Chumbawamba did. Their first full album was called [Pictures of Starving Children Sell Records](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictures_of_Starving_Children_Sell_Records), and it came out shortly after Live Aid. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/112 "2014-12-28T01:19:23Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > The guy thinks fucking BONO is an undeniably horrible person because one time when it was completely appropriate to do so, he asked people performing at a fund-raising concert he was part of organizing to not turn into a political bash-fest. > You REALLY expect him to be fair to someone who is on the opposite political spectrum from him? > [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > I already said that the bit about not criticizing Bush and Blair is, by itself, not a big deal. It _demonstrates_ a great deal more about the man’s complete and utter lack of integrity. If it wasn’t present before, it was definitely there after Live Aid. There’s a great Jello Biafra spoken-word piece called “Names For Bands”, which I think was recorded (for the most part) as early as 1987, in which he suggests “Bono’s Charred Remains” as a band name. The punk rockers in the audience all cheer. I’ll try to find a cite, but im sure I remember many years ago Bono talking of his fundraising and political activities, particularly in the US. He said the secret was to appeal to America’s greatness rather than condemn and criticize it(we know the celebrities who do this). Well, his comments about Bush and Blair seem rather in keeping with this philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/113 "2014-12-28T01:25:38Z")
The Ramones as a whole don’t seem that bad to me. Johnny is only one who seems to have been a real antisocial asshole and even then there have been suggestions that at least a little bit of that was schtick ( he kinda reveled in being viewed as an anti-hero jerk ) and some of it may have derived from his having to constantly herd cats - i.e. the rest of the band. His marriage ( to Joey’s former girlfriend ) certainly endured. He also apparently softened up a lot after he retired in the last year or two before his death. Joey seems to have been an incredibly neurotic ( and hence at times incredibly difficult ) sweetheart. Dee Dee was a drugged-out mess of a wild child, but doesn’t seem to have been excessively _mean_. Marky and Tommy both come off as level-headed and relatively normal ( Marky’s alcoholic phase not withstanding ). But who really was a disappointment to me was **Joe Strummer**. Sadly he comes off as the kind of wildly charismatic but completely self-involved prick who instantly made friends everywhere he went and then inevitably sabotaged them later to a greater or lesser extent. Often seemingly because he just got bored or felt like amusing himself at other’s expense. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/114 "2014-12-28T01:31:34Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I’ll try to find a cite, but im sure I remember many years ago Bono talking of his fundraising and political activities, particularly in the US. He said the secret was to appeal to America’s greatness rather than condemn and criticize it(we know the celebrities who do this). Well, his comments about Bush and Blair seem rather in keeping with this philosophy. Indeed, and criticizing/condemning America as such is counterproductive. I would oppose that too, because anti-Americanism is the anti-imperialism of fools. However, declaring off-limits those who hold the commanding heights, i.e. “the vultures who thirst for blood and oil”, in Zack De La Rocha’s words, is part of sending very large numbers of well-meaning people, along with their time, funds, and efforts, down the road to failure. The vultures know damn well what they’re doing. By the way, Live 8 was actually not a fundraiser. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/115 "2014-12-28T01:56:37Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I have heard that Christopher Reeve was a real jerk to everyone who served him in any way, or was “beneath” him on the pecking order. He only became a saint after his accident. Haven’t heard that about Reeve, though I admit that due to a lot of talented people being assholes I try not to look too closely at actors/artists/musicians/writers as I invariably seem disappointed. Even so - suddenly being physically helpless can definitely make you reappraise how you treat the people feeding you and helping you take your morning crap. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/116 "2014-12-28T02:22:05Z")
[Here’s George Monbiot, back in 2005, saying it in greater detail.](http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/jun/21/development.g8) ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/117 "2014-12-28T02:29:03Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > There’s a great Jello Biafra spoken-word piece called “Names For Bands”, which I think was recorded (for the most part) as early as 1987, in which he suggests “Bono’s Charred Remains” as a band name. The punk rockers in the audience all cheer. IIRC, “Bono’s Charred Remains” was not part of the original piece (says the aging punk-rocker) recorded on “No More Cocoons” (the spoken-word album). ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/118 "2014-12-28T02:54:18Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > IIRC, “Bono’s Charred Remains” was not part of the original piece (says the aging punk-rocker) recorded on “No More Cocoons” (the spoken-word album). It’s on my CD copy of “No More Cocoons”, as I just listened to it. It may have been edited together from later performances, and changed for the CD. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/119 "2014-12-28T03:05:31Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > It’s on my CD copy of “No More Cocoons”, as I just listened to it. It may have been edited together from later performances, and changed for the CD. I bought the vinyl when it came out and would’ve remembered that one. Possibly an add-on; Biafra adds and subtracts material. Now I have to try to find the original again… ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/120 "2014-12-28T03:07:19Z")
My older sister had personal acquaintances with Jerry Lewis, Danny Kaye, Jackie Cooper, David Janssen and many of that era who had dealings with airplanes where she worked. Lewis & Kaye needed out of the gene pool in her opinion. From personal experience, Hank Williams Jr. is a total asshat. YMMV [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283.md?page=7)