# Undeniably talented artists/performers who are also, undeniably, horrible people. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 27, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283 "2014-12-27T16:09:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/121 "2014-12-28T03:18:52Z")
H.P. Lovecraft. Undeniably a racist and a bigot in general. About the best you could say about him is that he hated pretty much everyone. I don’t feel too bad liking some of his work, given that he never acted on or profited from his bigotry, and basically died in poverty as an indirect result. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/122 "2014-12-28T03:22:19Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > From personal experience, Hank Williams Jr. is a total asshat. > > YMMV MMDNV. Is there anyone who things Hank Williams Jr. is not an asshat? ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/123 "2014-12-28T04:44:15Z")
William T. Riker. Except for his inner circle of elite friends, is a complete jerkass to anyone serving under him. Thinks being a dick means being a good commander. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/124 "2014-12-28T04:54:07Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Jimmy Stewart: All I can say about him is a customer at my job, remarking that Stewart was his uncle, who had a serious problem with this man’s homosexuality. That’s all I have. I don’t follow this. Jimmy Stewart was gay or had a problem with someone who was? Shame on him if it’s true. I will say that I met him at charity functions in LA. He was a gentleman to me. He once told Betty White to sit down and be quiet, when she was babbling drunkenly while I was giving a talk. He said it in his own inimitable way, of course. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/125 "2014-12-28T04:59:19Z")
> [@bup](#): > > MMDNV. > > Is there anyone who things Hank Williams Jr. is not an asshat? Not that I know of. Which is strange, because I’ve never heard anything bad about Hank sr, and Hank III and Holly both seem cool from what I’ve heard. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/126 "2014-12-28T05:06:10Z")
I can’t find anything significantly related to a search of “Charlton Heston viral E-mail” NOW, I did just read a speech he gave at Harvard in 1999 when he was 76 and 4 years away from being diagnosed for Alzheimers. In it, he basically thinks Political Correctness has run amuck, and he makes a couple of good points, but most of his other points are naïve and sophomoric. But you have to give Heston a break. He didn’t have the resources or ability we have today to thoroughly investigate what is political correctness run amuck and what isn’t. And it’s not like he would have been surrounded by a lot of modern thinkers. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/127 "2014-12-28T05:15:08Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > My older sister had personal acquaintances with Jerry Lewis, Danny Kaye, Jackie Cooper, David Janssen and many of that era who had dealings with airplanes where she worked. > > Lewis & Kaye needed out of the gene pool in her opinion. > > From personal experience, Hank Williams Jr. is a total asshat. > > YMMV I’ve always heard that Jerry Lewis is not a nice person, to put it mildly. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/128 "2014-12-28T05:22:56Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > I don’t follow this. Jimmy Stewart was gay or had a problem with someone who was? Shame on him if it’s true. > > I will say that I met him at charity functions in LA. He was a gentleman to me. He once told Betty White to sit down and be quiet, when she was babbling drunkenly while I was giving a talk. He said it in his own inimitable way, of course. 😃 A customer at my job claimed to be Stewart’s nephew. He said that Stewart had a big problem with him, solely because he (the nephew) was gay. As I stressed, that’s all I have, and it wouldn’t have occurred to me to add him to a list like this, but since his name came up… > [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > Not that I know of. > > Which is strange, because I’ve never heard anything bad about Hank sr, and Hank III and Holly both seem cool from what I’ve heard. Yeah, I’ve caught that vibe as well. HW2 is the … hmm, I can’t find the metaphor. > [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > I can’t find anything significantly related to a search of “Charlton Heston viral E-mail” > > NOW, I did just read a speech he gave at Harvard in 1999 when he was 76 and 4 years away from being diagnosed for Alzheimers. > > In it, he basically thinks Political Correctness has run amuck, and he makes a couple of good points, but most of his other points are naïve and sophomoric. But you have to give Heston a break. He didn’t have the resources or ability we have today to thoroughly investigate what is political correctness run amuck and what isn’t. And it’s not like he would have been surrounded by a lot of modern thinkers. That’s true, and I also wouldn’t have put him at the top of any list like this, but the fact is that all of those such speeches he was giving in those days were full of the kinds of naive and sophomoric (at best) things that unfortunately really appeal to the crowd who love to hear an angry “politically incorrect” white male playing the victim and “telling it like it is.” That sort of thing has consequences. If people just brushed off that nonsense, that would be different. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/129 "2014-12-28T05:24:28Z")
Uh, 1999 was hardly the dark ages. Just because Chuck Heston couldn’t do a quick Google on his iPhone doesn’t mean he “had no way to research political correctness.” You kids crack me up. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/130 "2014-12-28T05:35:03Z")
> [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](#): > > The Count from Sesame Street. Great public educator, sold biker meth to kids. Don’t get me started on that yellow-bellied Big Bird. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/131 "2014-12-28T05:40:02Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Uh, 1999 was hardly the dark ages. Just because Chuck Heston couldn’t do a quick Google on his iPhone doesn’t mean he “had no way to research political correctness.” > > You kids crack me up. 🙂 50 here. A 76 year old guy in 1999 wondering “Why can’t I go around showing white pride like blacks or gays do?” simply does not have the resources we do today. He’s likely to be technophobic, IRL he’s not going to be surrounded by people who can sit down and have a reasonable discussion with him and online he does not have as many resources as we do today. That’s simply a fact. Hell, in my parts, 1999 was just two years after we got rid of phone modems. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/132 "2014-12-28T05:53:01Z")
Seriously? So, at 50, you did no research on anything until 2000 or so and think no one else could have, basically because there was no internet and and old guy wouldn’t have been able to use it anyway? I get your point that Heston might have been a little… cocooned, but I’m sure he read a book or two and had heard of things like libraries, and journals, and research staff. He easily could have had the information. Whether he would choose to, or live with his prejudices, is another question. But a plethora of readily available info did not come into existence with Google. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/133 "2014-12-28T06:09:18Z")
I’ve heard from multiple independent sources that Charles Barkley is a giant prick to waitstaff, it is basically well known in Houston. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/134 "2014-12-28T06:35:32Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Seriously? So, at 50, you did no research on anything until 2000 or so and think no one else could have, basically because there was no internet and and old guy wouldn’t have been able to use it anyway? > > I get your point that Heston might have been a little… cocooned, but I’m sure he read a book or two and had heard of things like libraries, and journals, and research staff. He easily could have had the information. Whether he would choose to, or live with his prejudices, is another question. > > But a plethora of readily available info did not come into existence with Google. We’re not talking about ‘anything’. We’re talking about current (at the time ) hot-button topics. You think polls flipped around in support of gay marriage and Indian mascots are becoming out of vogue because we live in more enlightened times? No. It took years of being steeped in the atmosphere we have today. Shit, almost no one goes from the premise that they might be wrong and THEN investigates it. You need someone to make a reasonable argument, then you look into it. If it were 1999, and you said “Derek Jeter is a great shortstop, he only made two errors last year.” And the response was, " Hey grandpa, get your head out of your ass."…You’re not going to run to the library and ask for a book called, “What’s wrong with the error as a defensive metric” . You’re going to get offended and more entrenched in your beliefs, and if you’re 76!with rapidly approaching dementia, you might take it as an attack on American Values. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/135 "2014-12-28T06:47:30Z")
Is there anyone who thinks Hank Williams, Jr. is more than a mediocre talent? ~ > [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > There are other examples, like Peter Garrett’s tepidly reformist activities in his post-Midnight Oil legislative career. I…yeah, OK, see, I’m an Oils fan who was initially weirded out by Garrett not joining the Greens. But while I’m not thrilled with all his political choices, I don’t suppose he’s any more horrible than the average person. So I guess I agree with your assessment of him? ~ > [@dalej42](#): > > Charlton Heston, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Stewart, and Dennis Miller. And apparently James Woods, lately. > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > What he can’t call them is talented artists. Reagan was a competent B-grade actor at best. Still better than Hank Jr. I would say that Reagan’s greatest role was “grandfatherly head of state.” And I agree that Reagan was horrible in effect, because he empowered so many terrible, corrupt, strangely anti-social pols in his career. ~ > [@StGermain](#): > > That Hitler fellow did a few nice paintings along the lines of Thomas Kinkade. I find this a surprising comparison, but I guess I can see it. I don’t think Mr Hitler was quite so enamored of the high-contrast lights I associate with Kincade, but maybe I’ve just not seen any of his paintings that featured a lamplight prominently. More a natural-light painter, I reckon. > [@Peremensoe](#): > > That fascist asshole was certainly a terrible person, but his art was awful crap too, so no good for the “undeniable talent” requested here. > > Same goes for Hitler. Eh, I kind of like Adolf’s postcard paintings. They’re peaceful and unassuming. (Ironically enough.) ~ > [@bup](#): > > Oh, and Michael Minkler. The Oscar remarks? I think that was meant to be a sort of collegial ribbing that got away from him. ~ > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > And they remain friends to this day. Eminem even credits Elton with helping him finally kick his drug addiction for good due to the weekly phone conversations they used to have. Man, I keep seeing stuff lately about Elton John, and he’s like some kind of super-nice generous guy now? Cool. ~ > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Our 15 year old daughter is a huge Beatles fan. And she says **John Lennon** was a total jerk. From what I’ve learned of him, she’s right. “Insufferable” seems to have been his default mode for over a decade. ~ > [@Idilia\_Dubb](#): > > Wilde is venerated today as the great British martyr of the gay cause but he was in reality an obsessed, pigheaded fool. And a great writer, so well fits this thread. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/136 "2014-12-28T06:55:16Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > William T. Riker. > > Except for his inner circle of elite friends, is a complete jerkass to anyone serving under him. Thinks being a dick means being a good commander. So he should stick to music, is that what you’re saying? ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/137 "2014-12-28T08:25:07Z")
Buddy Rich was a great drummer, but he was impossible to be around. He was egotistical, ill-tempered and childish. Rick Barry fully deserves to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame, but nobody in the game could stand him. Artie Shaw is another gem. He was one of those people who seemed to take pride in giving offense. He was married eight times, and two of his exes (Lana Turner and Ava Gardner) said he was emotionally abusive. I doubt that he actually loved any of his wives - he once said something to the effect that for him marriage was a license to have sex. He could be really nasty to fans, the press and other musicians. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/138 "2014-12-28T09:11:38Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I’ve always heard that Jerry Lewis is not a nice person, to put it mildly. When I was a kid, my father told a story about what an asshole Jerry Lewis was. My dad had been a union rep for the Guild of Variety Artists, and had to pick Lewis up and deliver him to a club. On the way there, my dad was informed by Jerry Lewis that he was expected to procure a girl for him - and my dad explained that he was his union rep, not a pimp. > [@foolsguinea](#): > > Is there anyone who thinks Hank Williams, Jr. is more than a mediocre talent? No idea, but his buddy David Allen Coe is a piece of raw human sewage who has written a bunch of famous songs. And his fans are nearly as bad. And Prince could cure cancer tomorrow and he’d remain a worthless asshole to me. ---
**Author:** ![Idilia\_Dubb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c2a13f/32.png) [@Idilia\_Dubb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idilia_Dubb)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/139 "2014-12-28T12:28:57Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > My older sister had personal acquaintances with Jerry Lewis, Danny Kaye, Jackie Cooper, David Janssen and many of that era who had dealings with airplanes where she worked. **Maggie the Ocelot** , you’re seeking examples of reprehensible celebs but since **GunsNSpot** brought up David Janssen, may I veer off topic briefly to share some nice words about him? An actress I know in London co-starred with Janssen in a TV movie about the _Titantic_. Decades later, she remembered him fondly as one of the sweetest men she’d ever met, a thorough pro who was modest, punctual, knew his lines, knew his marks, cooperated with the crew and was considerate of his fellow performers. She said he was the opposite of a prima donna both on-set and off and a delight to know. Anyway, sorry for the OT detour. Let the bitchiness recommence. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283/140 "2014-12-28T15:07:14Z")
Yo! Everyone who’s making personal remarks about each other – knock it off now. If you want to make it about each other, take it to the Pit. I’m not going to call everyone out by name – but if you’re thinking “she couldn’t _possibly_ be talking about me, because I’m just [whatever]” – yeah, you too, knock it off. **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undeniably-talented-artists-performers-who-are-also-undeniably-horrible-people/708283.md?page=8)