# under God **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 16, 2002, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-god/119181 "2002-07-16T04:33:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mandelstam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-god/119181/21 "2002-07-18T18:34:08Z")
**Clucky** , regrets on your need to self-censor, which must feel awful. Whether you come out with your atheism or not, though, you can at least tell your co-worker, in a neutral spirit, that it wasn’t what this nation was founded on. The history of the pledge is itself instructive: is she aware of it? (I feel sheepish at this point for not posting links to the previous threads on this subject, but I’m busy as well as lazy today.) ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-god/119181/22 "2002-07-18T18:38:01Z")
—I have a 1902 US silver dollar with “In God We Trust” on the reverse, E. Pluribus Unum on the face.— Provided that’s a real U.S. silver dollar, what you have there is a relic of the LAST great wave of Christian evangelists trying to put their stamp on the government: going all the way back to the end of the Civil War. At the time your coin was minted, IGWT was not yet the motto of the nation (though they did try), but it was successfully installed on one or two monetary items as part of the usual decoration. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-god/119181/23 "2002-07-18T18:50:00Z")
You’re a better man than I am, Gunga Din. I have _never_ been able to keep my thoughts to myself. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-god/119181/24 "2002-07-18T20:56:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*You’re a better man than I am, Gunga Din. I have _never_ been able to keep my thoughts to myself. \*\* Well thank Og for THAT! If you were able to keep your thoughts to yourself, **Eve** , the SDMB would be in a poor state indeed! ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2002, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-god/119181/25 "2002-07-18T23:44:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mandelstam \* > …I just recently read that “In God We Trust” was also added by Congress in the 1950s. Once again, quite tellingly and sadly it replaced “E Pluribus Unum.” As **Apos** notes, “In God We Trust” was engraved on coins starting in the 1860s. But it wasn’t printed on bills until the 1950s – when Congress officially replaced the national motto, as well. So there was a phase-in period for “In God We Trust,” with an overlap period (including 1902). Now, “E Pluribus Unum” is in a phase-out period, as it were: still on coins and the dollar bill, but not an official motto. More info [here](http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Thrasymachus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@Thrasymachus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thrasymachus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-god/119181/26 "2002-07-19T00:16:31Z")
I was curious this afternoon, so I looked for the topic at the US Mint website. > [@](#): > > In God We Trust > > From Treasury Department records it appears that the first suggestion that God be recognized on U.S. coinage can be traced to a letter addressed to the Secretary of Treasury from a minister in 1861. An Act of Congress, approved on April 11, 1864, authorized the coinage of two-cent coins upon which the motto first appeared. > > The motto was omitted from the new gold coins issued in 1907, causing a storm of public criticism. As a result, legislation passed in May 1908 made “In God We Trust” mandatory on all coins on which it had previously appeared. > > Legislation approved July 11, 1955, made the appearance of “In God We Trust” mandatory on all coins and paper currency of the United States. By Act of July 30, 1956, “In God We Trust” became the national motto of the United States. > > Several years ago, the appearance of “In God We Trust” on our money was challenged in the federal courts. The challenge was rejected by the lower federal courts, and the Supreme Court of the United States declined to review the case. [http://www.usmint.gov/about\_the\_mint/fun\_facts/index.cfm?action=fun\_facts5](http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/fun_facts/index.cfm?action=fun_facts5) ---
**Author:** ![Mandelstam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-god/119181/27 "2002-07-19T02:22:34Z")
Thanks very much, **Apos** , **Grumpy** , **Thras**. I guess, to be fair, “E Pluribus Unum” might have lost some momentum during the Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-god/119181/28 "2002-07-19T19:17:09Z")
“In God We Trust” is such a weenie motto anyway. Can’t we have something _threatening_ as a motto, like Veni Vidi Vici or something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-god/119181/29 "2002-07-19T19:45:14Z")
I’ve always liked the motto of North Carolina: esse quam videri. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-god/119181/30 "2002-07-19T20:45:47Z")
I always liked _Sic semper tyrannis_. It’s not all that threating by itself, but the picture of Liberty (?) standing on top of a dead king certainly lends it, shall we say, some grit. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2002, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-god/119181/31 "2002-07-19T20:47:49Z")
That’s a great one, Monty! Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-god/119181/32 "2002-07-20T00:13:10Z")
**Lib** said > [@](#): > > I’ve always liked the motto of North Carolina: esse quam videri. Does that mean “eat pork BBQ?” I always wondered. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-god/119181/33 "2002-07-20T00:38:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > **At the time your coin was minted [1902], IGWT was not yet the motto of the nation (though they did try), but it was successfully installed on one or two monetary items as part of the usual decoration.** “One or two” monetary items? _In God We Trust_ has appeared continuously on **all** U.S. coins worth 25 cents or more since 1866. (The one notable exception being the 1907 gold double eagle, which as Thras has noted caused quite an uproar in its time.) IGWT didn’t appear on the one-cent piece until 1909, or on the dime until 1916. The oddball is the five-cent nickel: The first 5 cent nickels were minted in 1866. They bore an image of a shield on the obverse that was almost identical to that on the ill-fated 2-cent piece, and above this shield was a banner that said _In God We Trust_. 5-cent nickels continued to say IGWT until 1883, when the motto **disappeared** and the nickel switched to the Charles E. Barber Liberty-in-a-shower-cap design. IGWT didn’t reappear on nickels until the modern Jefferson nickel design of 1938. ---
**Author:** ![johnof6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@johnof6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnof6)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-god/119181/34 "2002-07-20T21:49:43Z")
I remember that Jesus told Mark (mark 12, 16-17) it was Caesar who was pictured on the money and God did not want it. Why is it the athiest taking the blame, when God is the one who made the rule? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-god/119181.md?page=1)