# Under what circumstance can people NOT go to college? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 8, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677 "2011-04-08T16:20:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/81 "2011-04-10T23:46:05Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > With smarts and gumption, a physically and mentally healthy person in a first world country can get ahead in life. The problem arises when a person does not have these characteristics. I’m glad you didn’t say “You can be anything you want to be,” “Nothing is impossible,” or “Dream it and become it.” ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/82 "2011-04-10T23:52:17Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > I’m glad you didn’t say “You can be anything you want to be,” “Nothing is impossible,” or “Dream it and become it.” Nah, it takes a lot more than wishful thinking to get ahead. We all have to play the cards we are dealt with, and a great many people are dealt poor hands, making it extremely difficult or even impossible to get ahead. There but for the grace of the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster go I. That’s where a social based society comes in, for often with the addition of a particular card at a particular time, a person who otherwise would not get ahead can get ahead. Thus my very strong support for social education, social health care, social housing, social assistance and the like. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/83 "2011-04-11T00:50:39Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Not sure why you are being so snarky. I’m not complaining if poorer minorities get more aid than I do. Well, TBH, your ‘I’m from a rich family’ comment did make me chuckle just because I’ve known so many rich people not understand what it is to be poor. Like saying someone built up a business with no help from their parents because they don’t count a 3k no-interest start-up loan as help. But you seem like a good bloke. How does it work, exactly? Or, at least, how did it work when you were at college? I mean, are you thinking of people who have their school fees covered, or some living costs too? Because if their school fees are covered but their living costs aren’t, that makes a big difference. Every hour you study is an hour you can’t work and you have bills to pay. And you have to remember that not everyone has the regular outlet where relatives look after them, providing all the food and stuff at Christmas/etc - for the entire break, and giving them laptops for birthdays and slipping the occasional 50 dollar bill every so often. These things add up. Also, There’s a difference between getting into debt if you know that, worst come to worst you move into your parents’ guest room, and worst comes to worst and you are homeless. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/84 "2011-04-11T10:36:17Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The challenge, IMHO, is to find work that you can do for decades that you find at least somewhat meaningful, not too terribly annoying and have at least somewhat of an aptitude for. Fortuantely there’s all sorts of work requiring all sorts of skill and education levels. > > The reason we encourage kids to go to college is because in general, more education is better than less. I was never a terribly good student, but I am certainly better off both professionally and personally for having gone through four years of undergrad and several more of business school. What people want for their life at 18 is often very different when they are 38. However, it is a lot harder to make those sort of changes later on. I’m not disagreeing with you. People should at least like what they do. But not everyone is suited to four-year college right out of high school for a number of reasons, and rather than set these kids up for failure, community college or vo-tech may provide them with opportunities to make more money, find more challenging work, and get a running head start on further education. Otherwise, they’re looking at an environment where they may not be successful and face a lot of debt in the process. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/85 "2011-04-11T11:32:22Z")
I’ve been following this thread, and I’m surprised that nobody mentioned geography. Perhaps one might live in a town where there’s no college that is within a reasonable commuting distance? Perhaps they want to major in something that isn’t offered at a nearby community or state college? Not everybody wants to be an English teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/86 "2011-04-11T12:08:19Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > I’ve been following this thread, and I’m surprised that nobody mentioned geography. Perhaps one might live in a town where there’s no college that is within a reasonable commuting distance? Perhaps they want to major in something that isn’t offered at a nearby community or state college? Not everybody wants to be an English teacher. It was mentioned early on, and it used to be a huge issue. Now - you can go to school online. Is it harder, sure. But I think we’ve removed every barrier to someone who WANTS to go to college to GO. Wisely, not always. Successfully, not always. In a field where it actually might give you a return on your time and money - not always. In the field you want, often no. But if you are nearly illiterate with a low GPA, there is a community college willing to give you a chance. If you are broke, we will give you a loan. Rural, go online. Time constrained, go online and take just one class a semester. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/87 "2011-04-11T13:21:01Z")
The “just go online” option sounds a lot to me like “let them eat cake.” Not everyone has a computer at home. And even among those who do, [not everyone has broadband access](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/us/18broadband.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=rural%20america%20broadband&st=cse), which is generally needed for most online classes. The infrastructure just is not there. According to the linked article, in rural areas, “28% of Americans do not use the internet at all” through lack of hardware or lack of accessibility. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/88 "2011-04-11T13:49:18Z")
Distance education does not necessarily have to be online. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/89 "2011-04-11T14:07:13Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > The “just go online” option sounds a lot to me like “let them eat cake.” > > Not everyone has a computer at home. And even among those who do, [not everyone has broadband access](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/us/18broadband.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=rural%20america%20broadband&st=cse), which is generally needed for most online classes. The infrastructure just is not there. According to the linked article, in rural areas, “28% of Americans do not use the internet at all” through lack of hardware or lack of accessibility. Dial up? Not a single one of my online classes (I took about 16 of them) required broadband - and anyone in the country could go to my school via their online catalog. The state college system of farm states is big on rural access. And that student loan will get you a netbook. Or a library, assuming your rural small town has one. Seriously, if you WANT to go to college, there is a way to go. If anything, I think we’ve swung way to far into “if you want to go, there is a way.” In too many cases, we are setting people up for failure. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/90 "2011-04-11T17:22:03Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Who can’t go to college? About 90 per cent of my students. They don’t have citizenship. For the colleges that would take them, the tuition is more than what their families make in an entire year. Tough f-ing luck. They should go back to wherever they came from and go to college there. It shouldn’t be our problem to educate and subsidize people from other countries. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/91 "2011-04-11T17:28:17Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Tough f-ing luck. They should go back to wherever they came from and go to college there. It shouldn’t be our problem to educate and subsidize people from other countries. I assume you’re referring to illegals, but American colleges have MANY foreign students enrolled at them. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/92 "2011-04-11T17:51:10Z")
Here’s part of the problem with all of those grants and aid and stuff. I applied for aid - I was granted, I shit you not, $300. I could take out a bunch of loans if I wanted to. But I don’t make a lot of money and yet I make too much to get real aid. You have to be really dirt poor to get aid. To get those special grants? You have to be the brightest of the bunch. A low A student or a high B is not going to cut it. Forget it if you do Bs and Cs. So that leaves loans. And to be quite honest, that scares the shit out of me. Sure, I can take out loans - no one guarantees me a job afterwards to pay them all off. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/93 "2011-04-11T18:34:55Z")
That’s where it comes down to making informed choices as to whether or not to go to college, and if so, to which program. Yes, it’s a risk, but life’s a risk, so ya pays yer penny and ya makes yer choice. [old fart advice]Whatever decision a person makes, it is best to actively make a decision, for avoiding the making of a decision is in effect a decision. Then once a decision is made, don’t beat yourself up if it turns out to be a poor decision. Just get on and enjoy life, whichever direction it takes.[/old fart advice] ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/94 "2011-04-11T19:50:56Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > I assume you’re referring to illegals, but American colleges have MANY foreign students enrolled at them. Yeah, I should have clarified that, I suppose. But if citizenship is a barrier to going to college, then it’s not really our obligation to remove that barrier- they can go home and go to school or become a resident alien/citizen and go to school here. Otherwise I don’t see where the problem is. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/95 "2011-04-11T20:07:03Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > I realize not everyone sees it that way but I don’t think the penalty for laziness or lack of ambition or oppression or whatever it is should be an early grave and sick children. The real issue (and it’s a chicken/egg type thing) is that many of the very people who are too poor, lazy or whatever, aren’t educated enough to realize the value of the education that they’re foregoing. I don’t have any idea how to change that- It’s an attitude thing ultimately. My parents let it be known from a VERY early age that I was going to go to college, and the choice was where and what I’d study. At some point, the choice was to get a scholarship or live at home with them and go to the University of Houston. (I got that scholarship, you’d better believe!) If someone’s parents and community aren’t particularly concerned that their children graduate high school, don’t get pregnant, and aren’t criminals, then I think college or even vocational/technical school is a tall order, regardless of whatever resources are available to them. That’s the fight that needs fighting, not whether the resources are there. Once the expectation is there, then you worry about the resources. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/96 "2011-04-17T05:20:48Z")
When I graduated from high school (back in 2009 lol) I didn’t go to college for a number of reasons. The biggest was obviously money; my parents’ financial info disqualified me from all government aid, so I would’ve been left taking on quite a bit of student loan debt. However, even more than that, the fact that I wasn’t actually guaranteed admission into my intended major at the prospective uni really just did not do me any favors. If I had known that I would’ve gotten into my anticipated program _for sure_ after the first few years of study then things probably would’ve turned out differently, but the plain and simple truth of it was that all of the requisite costs were far too large in the face of all the uncertainty that I was dealing with. Also, although I was academically prepared for college work, I know for a fact that I wasn’t ready for that either mentally or emotionally. I needed to mature, which is something that I’ve done since that time passed me by. And look, I’ll admit that there was a time wherein I might have welcomed the opportunity to lavish in some sympathy about my situation, but honestly, I’m just not in that place anymore. I find myself caring less and less about other peoples’ academic endeavors, much less their opinions of my own, as time drags on, so I don’t really seek any sympathy at this point. I’ll tell somebody the truth about my reasons for not immediately going to college, but I don’t do that out of some halfbaked attempt to eek out sympathy. Again, I just don’t care at this point. And for the record, it’s not like I’m done with school. I’m finally beginning my college career this fall when I enroll at my local CC, and I know that I’ll perform far better now than I ever could’ve done if I’d been shipped out to uni immediately post-high school. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/97 "2011-04-17T06:44:24Z")
Can we first debunk the idea that there’s this well of cash for minority students? The Supreme Court’s decision in the Graatz and Grutter Michigan affirmative action cases didn’t shut the door on affirmative action, but it pushed it pretty close to being closed. No university or federal program wants to be a test case to see if they are tailored narrowly enough, and there are well-heeled conservative groups that are looking to sue. So many of the programs designed to increase ethnic diversity are using proxies (SES, geography, parental education, etc.) that will include people of all races. Private funding of course is not under the same scrutiny, but UNCF schollies, from the last time I looked at their criteria, are not race-based. I knew of a White student and an Asian student who received aid from the UNCF. And I’m a little confused how the OP qualified for a Pell Grant, but claims to be well-off. Pell Grants are really directed at low income folks. I qualified for one, the year that my dad retired from the military and was out of work - so his pension and my mom’s salary put me below the cutoff. And it wasn’t a lot, either, but every little bit helps. Many of the reasons why people aren’t getting to, or finishing college have been mentioned. Not understanding how a college degree pays, not just financially but in any number of quality of life indicators is one. It really helps to have a family member with a degree to understand this. I dealt with the weirdness of being a smart kid in HS, and the next year, forgoing cool clothes and fixing up my car, while some of my friends were working 40 hour weeks and making enough to pay for apartments, car notes… I’m not super materialistic but it was a little hard not having any money for partying, or a car… and know that this would be the case until I graduated. **olives** mentioned a great barrier, which is being trapped in remediation courses that won’t count toward the degree. You were a pretty mediocre student at a mediocre school, and you know you can’t do algebra. So you’ll take a non-credit remedial pre-algebra class, which probably won’t be a class that engages you, and you’ll take the final and not pass - which means you need to stay in the same course next semester. And so on. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/98 "2011-04-17T07:54:41Z")
After-the-fact preface: This started as a reply to **Justin Bailey** and turned into a bit of a rant. I don’t mean the more strongly worded stuff to be directed at him in particular, so much as at this attitude in general. I have no way of knowing where **Justin** personally is coming from. > [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Maybe they work? As in more than one job (ha! your insularity is showing). Maybe they have children to raise? Maybe they went to terrible inner-city schools and can’t perform at the level required for even basic post-secondary educaiton? > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I repeat, anyone who wants to go to college can go to college. Will it be easy? FUCK NO! But they could go and there are ways that they could make it work. No matter how poor. You didn’t really respond to any of **Kimmy** ’s points there. Say they’re a single parent with no one to take care of the kids. Or say they’re working two low paying jobs to support their family. Or say their high school education was just so abysmal that they aren’t really prepared for any kind of semi-decent college. What exactly are they supposed to do? But just for the sake of argument, let’s suppose you’re right, and in these and every other set of circumstances there exists some way around them. Sure, it might be extremely difficult, or it might mean screwing over family members who are counting on you just so you can get ahead. But whatever, suppose there’s a way. And suppose some people don’t take it. Then what, we’re not supposed to have any sympathy for them? My parents are lawyers who paid for my college and helped support me through grad school. So when I hear about someone who had to climb Mount Fucking Everest by comparison to get an education, and maybe decided it wasn’t worth it, I’m supposed to say “Well tough luck, chump, it’s your own fault you’re poor?” If you’ve crawled your way up from the bottom, then hey, fine, look down on people who haven’t. Not everyone is blessed with the same fortitude, but hey, I guess you’ve earned the right to be condescending. But if you were some upper middle class kid like me who grew up with college in your future a foregone conclusion, and you want to take the fact that some people facing challenges you never knew still had a _theoretical_ chance to go to college and didn’t take it as a reason to dismiss whatever problems they face due to their lack of a degree… well, I don’t think you have the right. **Or, the short version:** Being poor makes a lot of things really fucking hard. Using someone’s failure to overcome these hardships as an excuse not to care about their problems is pretty damn callous, and especially so if you haven’t ever faced that sort of hardship yourself. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/99 "2011-04-17T16:59:29Z")
I have no problem with the concept of financial aid for college, as long as it is spent on tuition, books, and supplies for college. What I have a problem with is people spending FAFSA money on Starbucks coffee, pets, and the newest smart phones or running shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Mrs.Cake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677/100 "2011-04-17T22:55:51Z")
I can’t answer for everyone, but in my case it was leaving home at 16 for a variety of reasons, which meant a few years of just getting by and planning to go eventually. No support system, little knowledge about how to actually go about it - no one in my famly had gone but my older sister who left after a year and in my family boys wwnt into the military and girls got married. Never saw a school counselor in 4 years of high school. By the time I could start thinking about some night classes there were a variety of other issues, and now here I am at 49 with 25 years of accounting experience, 9 of them in very senior positions. A degree would not get me any more money and I’d be in debt the rest of my working days. My husband had a similar experience and worse family problems - he was sleeping on friends’ floors by the age of 15. He got a couple years of college in but had to work 2 crappy jobs to get by for too long. Eventually taught himself to write websites back in the early '90’s and used that improved pay while I covered our living expenses to get his commercial helicopter pilot license. So now we have almost finished paying that all off and in theory one of us could go get a degree but not too likely at this point. So in short, shit happens and best laid plans have a way of getting put on hold, especially when you have no support system. Fortunately we are reasonably smart and able to self educate, and created our own mutual support system that enabled us to manage very well without degrees. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstance-can-people-not-go-to-college/577677.md?page=6)