# Under what circumstances should a cop shooting someone be justified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 27, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153 "2020-08-27T14:54:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/41 "2020-08-27T23:46:58Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > But knowing only what the officers could have known at that moment the shooting was deemed justified. All the officers knew is of a report of someone waving a gun around and that person was reaching for what looked like a pistol tucked into his waistband. The waistband likely concealed the tip of the gun. They knew enough to call multiple units to block entry and egress to the park at a safe distance and take their time to assess the situation for unknowns. Instead, they rolled in hot like they where in an action movie. ---
**Author:** ![HammondsCollapse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecb155/32.png) [@HammondsCollapse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HammondsCollapse)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/42 "2020-08-28T00:14:11Z")
The shooting of Tamir Rice was a crime and a travesty in my opinion it’s just a common sense factor, when you see you are dealing with a little kid that requires a different skill set than just blasting them away it’s common sense I believe those cops or at least the one who shot him should be in prison. This latest shooting Blake? Where he was shot in the back the guy was ignoring verbal commands and actively moving to his car for reasons only he was aware of, he could have been going for a gun, I’m willing to wait till all the information comes out before saying it was right or wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/43 "2020-08-28T00:15:10Z")
We are not a European country. Compare with other American nations. Boy, they sure dont teach geography like they used to. 😝 😆 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/44 "2020-08-28T00:19:31Z")
People are people. There’s nothing special about the American continents that makes it less objectionable for cops to kill with little or no impunity. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/45 "2020-08-28T00:41:40Z")
OK, so Rice looked like an adult, and his toy looked like a real gun. So, as far as the officers on the scene knew, he was an adult with a gun. But as the NRA keeps reminding us, being an adult with a gun isn’t a crime, and so “I thought he was an adult with a gun” is not a valid reason to shoot. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/46 "2020-08-28T02:06:07Z")
Sure, then why not compare all nations, instead of cherry picking? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/47 "2020-08-28T02:18:20Z")
I’m comparing the ones we should strive to emulate - the ones that do better than us in this metric. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/48 "2020-08-28T03:55:19Z")
The ones that prove your point. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/49 "2020-08-28T12:45:40Z")
They should pay cops like doctors and then require malpractice insurance? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/50 "2020-08-28T12:56:32Z")
I do think that we should pay them better than we do, we should screen the applicants more thoroughly, we should give them better training, and they should have more accountability. I don’t know if we have to go to doctor’s level pay, but if you think that that is what would be necessary in order to get the quality of people needed to protect our communities rather than terrorize them, then if you are correct, I suppose that would be what we would need to do. I don’t think that we need to go to the same extremes as you seem to, I mean, I also compared them to airplane pilots, who are entrusted with the safety of hundreds of people at a time, and they don’t get doctor pay. If we are going to give someone a gun, and send them out into the neighborhood in order to promote safety and security of those who live there, do you think that there should be _any_ standards that they should have to meet? Are doctors the _only_ ones who have to meet standards and be accountable for their actions? ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/51 "2020-08-28T12:58:40Z")
> [@HammondsCollapse](#): > > This latest shooting Blake? Where he was shot in the back the guy was ignoring verbal commands and actively moving to his car for reasons only he was aware of, he could have been going for a gun, I’m willing to wait till all the information comes out before saying it was right or wrong. It was wrong It proves that people do not trust the cops authority to not draw their gun for any reason. Would’ve it mattered if he stopped hands up? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/52 "2020-08-28T13:08:49Z")
Doctors were just the cost / insurance comparison that popped into my mind. Currently, IMO, the two most underpaid positions in great power and responsibility (with limited oversight) are teachers and police officers. The oversight in both areas is failing. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/53 "2020-08-28T13:14:04Z")
> [@chela](#): > > Would’ve it mattered if he stopped hands up? Usually, yes. But now we can’t know and blaming this automatically on racism is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/54 "2020-08-28T13:19:06Z")
This is where the argumentation gets off the rails. You don’t trust the cops, check. You don’t trust the grand jury either …, check. Who do you trust? Other than your gut feeling that this was just racist cops shooting an unarmed boy? This was a tragedy no doubt, but all of the evidence points to it being a justifiable mistake. What should have been done to the responding officers? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/55 "2020-08-28T13:29:21Z")
In the Rice case, I trust Judge Ronald Adrine, who recommended the dishonest cops be indicted. His recommendation was ignored. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/56 "2020-08-28T13:32:02Z")
I can’t disagree with that. It is our society that is failing its communities and its future. Off topic, but yeah, teachers should also be better paid, screened, and trained. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/57 "2020-08-28T13:32:10Z")
🙄 Of course you do, because it matches your gut, however the grand jury did not indite, and from the evidence presented, they were right not to. They should have put the police in question (well, ALL of them actually) through more rigorous training/ education though ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/58 "2020-08-28T13:34:27Z")
The grand jury almost certainly didn’t indict because the prosecutor didn’t want them to. Grand juries pretty much always indict if a prosecutor wants them to and presents the evidence in such a way. And it’s no surprise when a prosecutor doesn’t want to indict cops, no matter the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/59 "2020-08-28T13:34:29Z")
At the very very least, it should serve as a lesson on how _not_ to approach a person who may be armed. The way that they came at him, they gave themselves no other options but to shoot him. But they are the ones who chose how to confront him, and so the circumstances of how that all played out are entirely because of their “mistake” that should never be repeated. Excusing their behavior in any way is only asking for such a tragedy to be repeated. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/60 "2020-08-28T13:39:30Z")
Everything you listed there is all mumbo jumbo gut feelings by you. Not a single fact in evidence counselor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153.md?page=4)