# Under what circumstances should a cop shooting someone be justified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 27, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153 "2020-08-27T14:54:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/81 "2020-08-28T18:50:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No doubt there is racial oppression and racism. No doubt some white cops shoot black men as they are more “threatened” due to the fact that the white cop is still racist, even if subconsciously . That doesnt mean every time a white cop kills a black man it is automatically racist Great; please cite the cases where a cop kneeled on a white man’s neck until killing him because said white man, who was unarmed, was selling cigarettes. Thank you in advance. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/82 "2020-08-28T18:53:52Z")
> [@Mallard](#): > > If you walk briskly to your car, open the door and make like you’re reaching for something, that’s just asking for trouble, IMHO. And you should be killed for that? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/83 "2020-08-28T18:54:48Z")
Simply the kind of country where you are expected to listen to law enforcement. Law enforcement can (and will ) be blamed especially as high as racial tensions are in the country now. We all agree that law enforcement has, at times, gotten away with too much for too long and are listening and willing to adopt changes. But labeling every single incidence as racist isn’t helping the cause. ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/84 "2020-08-28T18:55:20Z")
You don’t fight about “whether the cop’s gun should be out and pointed at you when it’s out and pointed at you”. This Blake guy appears to give the cops every reason to shoot him from the video I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/85 "2020-08-28T18:57:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, the Floyd killing doesnt seem to have anything to do with racism. Chauvins past has been checked and rechecked and no hint of racism. It was either uncontrolled anger or a personal issue. It’s not about a racist cop; it’s about a racist system. Unarmed black people are killed by police at a significantly higher rate than unarmed white people. When you ask an individual officer in a specific case why they did it, they will have a reason. It may even sound reasonable. But the fact is, police wind up feeling that they must shoot unarmed black people at a higher rate. The fairly obvious reason is that unconscious bias tips the scales. Cases in the grey area will break differently due to unconscious bias. And sometimes cases that should be clear are argued as being in the grey area. For the OP, I’m not sure that there are many changes needed to the laws and rules that apply to police shootings, but there is, in my view, a tremendous shift in training and screening needed, as well as a change in the philosophical orientation of police departments away from “crime fighting” and toward providing service. There is a combative and militaristic mindset that is at odds with what in my view should be the focus. ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/86 "2020-08-28T18:58:08Z")
What should the cops have done. Wait and “see what he’s got”? I believe for public safety they’re trained to assume it’s an AK 47. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/87 "2020-08-28T18:58:45Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > And you should be killed for that Only if you look “threatening” apparently ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/88 "2020-08-28T18:59:08Z")
People shouldn’t be killed for much of anything, except rape and child molestation, but yet people are killed every single day for less. LISTEN TO THE COPS, i hear it lessens the chance you get shot. If something untoward happens AFTER you listen, you are free to litigate it (and right now and hopefully moving forward) they will take your complaint seriously. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/89 "2020-08-28T19:00:25Z")
> [@Mallard](#): > > What should the cops have done. Wait and “see what he’s got"? Yes… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/90 "2020-08-28T19:00:49Z")
> [@Mallard](#): > > What should the cops have done. Wait and “see what he’s got”? I believe for public safety they’re trained to assume it’s an AK 47 how is the public safer if the cops assume every (black) guy has an AK? Maybe the COPS are safer, but the guy (who didn’t have an AK) is also a part of the public, and now he’s dead, so some cop can feel “safer”. Fuck that; you wanna be safe, don’t be a cop. ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/91 "2020-08-28T19:01:32Z")
And that may be too late. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/92 "2020-08-28T19:02:10Z")
No it won’t ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/93 "2020-08-28T19:02:38Z")
Then obey the commands, live to see another day and file your lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/94 "2020-08-28T19:03:09Z")
> [@Mallard](#): > > And that may be too late. If, as a law enforcement officer, you’re so scared for your own safety that you’re willing to shoot a civilian before you are 110% sure he has a weapon, you have no business being a police officer. Get a fucking desk job. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/95 "2020-08-28T19:03:56Z")
I said, > [@Babale](#): > > how is the public safer if the cops assume every (black) guy has an AK? Maybe the COPS are safer, but the guy (who didn’t have an AK) is also a part of the public, and now he’s dead, so some cop can feel “safer”. Fuck that; you wanna be safe, don’t be a cop. You said, > [@Mallard](#): > > Then obey the commands, live to see another day and file your lawsuit. Care to actually respond to my point? ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/96 "2020-08-28T19:04:38Z")
Can’t. The desks were stolen. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/97 "2020-08-28T19:06:06Z")
what if firefighters behaved this way? What if they refused to enter a building until it was completely safe to do so, and preemptively used force to level any building that caught fire just so they wouldn’t have to put themselves in danger? Shouldn’t they assume any burning structure is filled with explosives that may go off any second, and therefore nuke said structure from orbit rather than risk their own life by entering it? ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/98 "2020-08-28T19:06:44Z")
A reminder: I know it’s hard to keep all the police shootings of black men straight, but Jacob Blake was not killed. He’s alive and paralyzed. > [@Kearsen1](#): > > We all agree that law enforcement has, at times, gotten away with too much for too long and are listening and willing to adopt changes. Um, I don’t think we all agree on that last part. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/99 "2020-08-28T19:07:31Z")
> [@Mallard](#): > > Can’t. The desks were stolen. [if that was true, it would be more likely they were stolen by the police than by a thief, statistically speaking.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/23/cops-took-more-stuff-from-people-than-burglars-did-last-year/%3foutputType=amp) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153/100 "2020-08-28T19:08:55Z")
I was speaking more in general than in regards to any specific case; but in my book, having your back shot up to the point of paralysis is only a small step down from murder when it comes to potential wrongdoing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-a-cop-shooting-someone-be-justified/919153.md?page=6)