# Under what circumstances should people enlist to fight in wars they don't support? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 17, 2007, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-people-enlist-to-fight-in-wars-they-dont-support/388325 "2007-01-17T15:37:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2007, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-people-enlist-to-fight-in-wars-they-dont-support/388325/21 "2007-01-18T06:47:36Z")
[QUOTE=DrCube] Even if you don’t support a war you should realize that the people fighting it might not either. Some people are there because it is their job, and that particular job doesn’t let you question your orders unless they violate the Geneva or Hague conventions. [/quote] So what ? We aren’t talking about flipping burgers, we are talking about killing people. And I _personally_ am talking about morality, not the law; the law in such matters is hopelessly corrupted anyway. Of _course_ they legally have to do whatever they are ordered to do, including killing innocents. The people who write those laws are the same ones who give the orders to kill those innocents in the first place. [QUOTE=DrCube] Don’t hate the soldiers who had to fight for a cause they don’t believe in; pity them. Soldiers can’t pick and choose which wars they’ll fight; they have to go when called no matter what they believe. [/quote] No, they do not. They can desert, they can refuse to obey orders - neither of which is nearly as bad for them as the results of obeying orders is for others. Any soldier who kills in a cause he doesn’t believe in is a murderer, as are quite a few who for a cause they _do_ believe in. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2007, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-people-enlist-to-fight-in-wars-they-dont-support/388325/22 "2007-01-18T09:20:43Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] What about Korea. Unpopular war. Overstretched Army. [/QUOTE] A tricky one. As a Brit I would have been a conscript and had no choice in the matter apart from deserting. Compared to the other really squalid things the British Army was up to in those times Korea looks pretty clean. It was authorised by the UN and unlike Vietnam it was the North and the Soviets who broke agreements and escalated border conflicts into a full scale civil war. I would have objected strenuously to the sheer incompetence with which it was fought. I’m by no means a pacifict, or anti-mlitary. I just object most strenuously to being lied to, being fed to a war that is unnecessary or led by stupid people using risible or barbarian tactics once I get there. War should be a last resort, not the tool near the top of the box like it seems to be nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2007, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-people-enlist-to-fight-in-wars-they-dont-support/388325/23 "2007-01-18T11:48:59Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] Spanish Civil War. I’d like to think I’d have been there. Just but doomed cause. [/QUOTE] **tagos** , the grandfather I still have is Republican. He says that he realized they were going to lose when, four days into the uprising, every naval officer in the Republican Navy was murdered by the sailors. Just? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2007, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-people-enlist-to-fight-in-wars-they-dont-support/388325/24 "2007-01-18T12:01:43Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] **tagos** , the grandfather I still have is Republican. He says that he realized they were going to lose when, four days into the uprising, every naval officer in the Republican Navy was murdered by the sailors. Just? [/QUOTE] Yes. The first shots in the fight against fascism and defending an elected progressive government. As just as cause as you could get in those dreadful times. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2007, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-people-enlist-to-fight-in-wars-they-dont-support/388325/25 "2007-01-18T12:08:20Z")
O…K… if you can consider “just” a cause where anybody who’s in charge of anything is promptly considered an adequate target, even those on your own side, then yes, I guess that was a just cause. I thought you just had the usual oversimplistic, romanticized version of the 6th Carlista War as so many foreigners. Guess not. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2007, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-people-enlist-to-fight-in-wars-they-dont-support/388325/26 "2007-01-18T12:12:31Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] O…K… if you can consider “just” a cause where anybody who’s in charge of anything is promptly considered an adequate target, even those on your own side, then yes, I guess that was a just cause. I thought you just had the usual oversimplistic, romanticized version of the 6th Carlista War as so many foreigners. Guess not. [/QUOTE] Wars are messy horrible things and people are brutal and stupid but when one side are wearing jackboots and are using them to trample over an elected government and reverse progressive social reforms then the choice of sides is clear to me. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2007, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-people-enlist-to-fight-in-wars-they-dont-support/388325/27 "2007-01-18T12:47:37Z")
From a different perspective, I wish I _could_ have joined the Air Force when I was an appropriate age. (Family’s branch. Grandpa was AAF, dad was AF) I’m not in physical condition to do so, and was less so then. (Asthma, blown knees, colorblind, etcetera) It would have been good for me, personally, and I think I would have been a better person for it, war on or not. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2007, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-people-enlist-to-fight-in-wars-they-dont-support/388325/28 "2007-01-18T14:33:26Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Any soldier who kills in a cause he doesn’t believe in is a murderer, as are quite a few who for a cause they _do_ believe in. [/QUOTE] I think very few soldiers under fire are thinking about democracy, or UN resolution #1205. They are, at that moment, only trying to keep themselves and their buddies alive by whatever means possible. So, they really, _really_ believe in their cause. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Joe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@Evil\_Joe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Joe)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2007, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-people-enlist-to-fight-in-wars-they-dont-support/388325/29 "2007-01-20T02:47:54Z")
Good plunder and pay. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2007, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-people-enlist-to-fight-in-wars-they-dont-support/388325/30 "2007-01-20T04:04:34Z")
[QUOTE=dahfisheroo] I think very few soldiers under fire are thinking about democracy, or UN resolution #1205. They are, at that moment, only trying to keep themselves and their buddies alive by whatever means possible. So, they really, _really_ believe in their cause. [/QUOTE] Cute, but that doesn’t matter. It’s the larger cause that makes what they are doing moral or not. They don’t spend most of their time under fire anyway. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-people-enlist-to-fight-in-wars-they-dont-support/388325/31 "2007-01-20T21:03:34Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Cute, but that doesn’t matter. It’s the larger cause that makes what they are doing moral or not. [/QUOTE] Expound on your statement, please. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2007, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-people-enlist-to-fight-in-wars-they-dont-support/388325/32 "2007-01-20T21:29:56Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Under what circumstances should people enlist to fight in wars they don’t support? [/QUOTE] Easy. When you really, really want a chance to kill somebody and you don’t much care who. [sigh] If not for my asthma . . . ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Netbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71e660/32.png) [@Netbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Netbrian)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2007, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-people-enlist-to-fight-in-wars-they-dont-support/388325/33 "2007-01-20T23:45:34Z")
No. I think that under such circumstances, the morally correct thing to do would be not to enlist (although I don’t know about trying to avoid things afterward). I feel that the sentiment that it’s your responsibility to let your country continue to fight for things you believe in has generally lead to nothing but pain. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2007, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-people-enlist-to-fight-in-wars-they-dont-support/388325/34 "2007-01-21T00:29:39Z")
It might be morally and otherwise appropriate, at such a time, to enlist **now** and hope to survive the war, so you can acquire the vital military skills that might be useful in a revolution **later.** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-circumstances-should-people-enlist-to-fight-in-wars-they-dont-support/388325.md?page=1)