# Under what genre is Leonard Cohen's music best classified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 9, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063 "2018-09-09T20:29:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/1 "2018-09-09T20:29:58Z")
How do you all think Leonard Cohen’s music is best classified? I think his career can be broken up into three periods. His 60s and 70s music would fall under folk music, but what about his subsequent albums and his one stray album (Death of a Ladies’ Man)? I see two later periods. I think his 80s and 90s albums (Various Positions, I’m Your Man, The Future) are all the same genre. Similarly everything since 2000 starting with Dear Heather seems to be another different genre. I like the music from all three of the stages in his career, but I’m just not sure how to classify his later two stages. As for Death of a Ladies’ Man, that one seems even more bizarre and difficult to classify since it doesn’t seem to really fit in with any of the other groupings. Should I even divide his career up into these three stages? ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/2 "2018-09-09T20:48:13Z")
I think every career can be divided into stages. It seems to me to be three because people are primed to look for three, but who cares, why not, if it makes sense to you. (Even when someone dies in a freak accident, someone retrospectively seems to come up with three stages, even though if the three-stage concept were true then that career should end in the middle of stage 2.) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/3 "2018-09-10T05:58:58Z")
In Spain he’s called a _poeta urbano_… city poet. Dylan and our Joaquín Sabina get the same classification. Their individual songs may fall into different slots (Sabina even wrote at least one ranchera), but the kind of subject matter is consistent throughout. In their case, the classification is based more on the lyrics than the music. The same happens with some other genres such as _canciones de la morriña_ (homesickness songs), which can come with all [kinds](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYxKIqb87TQ) [of](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jd_kdq2jlI) [music](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCSB_BiNSZo). ---
**Author:** ![blob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blob/32/489_2.png) [@blob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blob)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/4 "2018-09-10T06:04:50Z")
Mopey? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/5 "2018-09-10T11:17:43Z")
He fits somewhere in between Dylan and Morrissey. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/6 "2018-09-10T14:25:34Z")
Eh, like everything it depends on whether you’re a splitter or joiner. Urban pop? Maybe. Pop music gets a bad rap, but a lot of music falls under the genre. Bing Crosby, Irving Berlin, Britney Spears. All pop. Ditto a lot of other popular music. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/7 "2018-09-10T16:43:01Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Eh, like everything it depends on whether you’re a splitter or joiner. Not only that, it also depends how special in your own mind a certain artist is. Your personal favourites get three categories all to themselves, while the ones you’re not that interested in are all the same. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/8 "2018-09-10T18:01:33Z")
I would say Blues. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/9 "2018-09-10T19:47:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I would say Blues. It’s relatively easy to demonstrate that his songs aren’t blues. You could just as easily say they have to be country songs because he was from Canada and Canada is a country. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/10 "2018-09-10T20:23:31Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > It’s relatively easy to demonstrate that his songs aren’t blues. You could just as easily say they have to be country songs because he was from Canada and Canada is a country. 🙂 I get your point, but western Canada actually has a pretty strong tradition of country music (in the regular sense of the name). A number of Grand Ole Opry members hail from Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/11 "2018-09-10T20:47:06Z")
Latter day croaky? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/12 "2018-09-11T00:46:44Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > It’s relatively easy to demonstrate that his songs aren’t blues. So, do it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/13 "2018-09-11T08:12:23Z")
Somewhere in the intersection of [Soft Rock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_rock) and [Sentimental Ballad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentimental_ballad) with, still, that Folk underlayer even in later years. But really, I think _[chanson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chanson#Nouvelle_chanson)_ fits way better, even if his works are in English. ---
**Author:** ![RobDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@RobDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobDog)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/14 "2018-09-11T11:31:24Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > He fits somewhere in between Dylan and Morrissey. … and if it’s any help with categorising, Morrissey is often described as a “miserabilist”. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/15 "2018-09-11T11:42:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, do it. Blues music has particular structures , melodic elements (the blues scale, blue notes like the flat 3, flat 5, flat 7), harmonies (based predominantly on I7, IV7, V7), and song forms. Very little of Cohen’s music has anything to do with the idiom. I mean, there’s “Almost Like The Blues” which at least follows the song structure and chord progression of a 12-bar minor blues tune, although transformed through Cohen. [Even Cohen himself says:](https://www.ft.com/content/38855320-88de-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340) > [@](#): > > ``` > “I know Russian music, because my mother sang Russian songs around the house. I know country and I know Greek music, because I lived there for several years. So I feel comfortable with all those styles,” he said in an interview with The Globe and Mail in 1985. “ **I’d be reluctant to write in an idiom that wasn’t native to me: I wouldn’t want to sing the blues, because I’m not black and it’s not my music.** ” > > ``` > [@MrDibble](#): > > Somewhere in the intersection of [Soft Rock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_rock) and [Sentimental Ballad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentimental_ballad) with, still, that Folk underlayer even in later years. > > But really, I think _[chanson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chanson#Nouvelle_chanson)_ fits way better, even if his works are in English. That does work quite well, I do have to say. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/16 "2018-09-11T13:26:38Z")
That quote from Cohen reminded me: Russian chanson [is a thing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_chanson). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/17 "2018-09-11T17:32:06Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I mean, there’s “Almost Like The Blues” which at least follows the song structure and chord progression of a 12-bar minor blues tune, although transformed through Cohen. Well, yes, that is what I was thinking of:_Almost Like The Blues_ Cohen is _almost_ like a lot of things. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/18 "2018-09-11T22:15:46Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I get your point, but western Canada actually has a pretty strong tradition of country music (in the regular sense of the name). A number of Grand Ole Opry members hail from Canada. As did the Chinese guy who didn’t really feel that he fit in with Country & Western, so called his music Country & Eastern. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/19 "2018-09-12T05:10:58Z")
Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![BoogieStik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ec9cab/32.png) [@BoogieStik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoogieStik)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063/20 "2019-01-24T19:22:05Z")
When I face this conundrum I assign the artist’s name as the genre, and did so with Cohen. Frank Zappa certainly required this treatment. It’s a sign of respect as well as a solution to the problem. For example, even though the Beatles could arguably be called **Rock** artists, I label all their output—even their solo work— **Beatles**. For some artists, lumping them in with all other artists of a common genre just wouldn’t be right even if it might be fitting. It does mean that one needs a catchall definition if one wants to listen to, say, Zappa and the Beatles along with all other rock acts, but that’s what playlists are for. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/under-what-genre-is-leonard-cohens-music-best-classified/821063.md?page=2)