# Underage sex, is it rape? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 17, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944 "2022-01-17T19:21:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/141 "2022-01-20T15:15:08Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I have two, 14 and 16. This isn’t an academic exercise for me nor my wife, such conversations have taken place It’s hardly academic for me either. And if my then-16 yo was looking like she was going to have sex with a 19 y.o., I would have reported him. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Both my wife and I were sexually involved with other people in our teenage years that were very similar to the scenario you give, many friends of ours too. Sorry for your unwitting abuse, I really am. Worse that you’ve internalized it. I certainly had teenage sexual encounters, but they were with _people my own age_. Which is perfectly fine. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/142 "2022-01-20T15:47:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > if my then-16 yo was looking like she was going to have sex with a 19 y.o., I would have reported him. And if they had been in a sexual relationship, regardless of the nature of that relationship, you’d have wanted him to be convicted of rape and locked up forever. That is a massive overreaction. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Sorry for your unwitting abuse it was not abuse, nor was it unwitting, nor was it illegal. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Worse that you’ve internalized it I’m perfectly happy that I know my own personal experiences and whether I consider it abuse or a consensual sexual interaction. It only seems like “internalisation” to you because you can’t comprehend a situation where a 16 and 19 year old might have sex and it not be a cause for lifelong incarceration or worthy of the label “crime” or “abuse” > [@MrDibble](#): > > I certainly had teenage sexual encounters, but they were with _people my own age_ . Which is perfectly fine. Just because you had those encounters with people you own age does not make them “perfectly fine” just as encounters with an age gap does not make them worthy of jail. Both may be fine, even healthy. Both may have huge problems. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/143 "2022-01-20T15:58:32Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > And if they had been in a sexual relationship, regardless of the nature of that relationship, you’d have wanted him to be convicted of rape and locked up forever. Yep. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > It only seems like “internalisation” to you because you can’t comprehend a situation where a 16 and 19 year old might have sex and it not be a cause for lifelong incarceration or worthy of the label “crime” or “abuse” Like I said before, this is what rape culture does. It makes it acceptable for people to make the argument that adults having sex with children can be “healthy”. 19 year olds are adults. 16 year olds are children. NAMBLA called, they want their arguments back. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/144 "2022-01-20T16:00:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > NAMBLA called, they want their arguments back. Nobody here is making a NAMBLA argument. NAMBLA is not advocating (or did - I don’t know if they exist anymore) for teenagers to be able to have sex with each other. They wanted adults to have sex with children. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/145 "2022-01-20T16:01:04Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > They wanted adults to have sex with children. So does Bobble. 19 = adult, 16 = child. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/146 "2022-01-20T16:04:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Like I said before, this is what rape culture does. It makes it acceptable for people to make the argument that adults having sex with children can be “healthy”. 19 year olds are adults. 16 year olds are children I strongly disagree that anything that I’ve said is indicative of “rape culture” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/147 "2022-01-20T16:05:36Z")
I doubt, from the scare quotes, that you even think rape culture exists. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/148 "2022-01-20T16:11:28Z")
I’m just gonna throw it out there that I don’t think it’s OK for 40-year-olds to sleep with 18-year-olds, either. I’m not interested in making it illegal, any more than I want to punish teenage lovers. But I would shun a 40-year-old with an 18-year-old girlfriend/boyfriend. Anyone care to defend this hypothetical 40-year-old? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/149 "2022-01-20T16:14:21Z")
What people are trying to say is that there is a significant difference between a 19-16 split and a 35-11 split. You may disagree, but I and most people find that position preposterous, and not even legally relevant in many places. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/150 "2022-01-20T16:24:28Z")
> [@Esprise\_Me](#): > > Anyone care to defend this hypothetical 40-year-old? Not me. > [@RickJay](#): > > What people are trying to say is that there is a significant difference between a 19-16 split and a 35-11 split. Sure, but nevertheless, both are adults having sex with children. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/151 "2022-01-20T16:27:00Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I certainly had teenage sexual encounters, but they were with _people my own age_ . Which is perfectly fine. Same actual birthdate? Or was one person perhaps months older than the other? Because, according to my reading of your argument, there’s a massive difference. > [@MrDibble](#): > > And if my then-16 yo was looking like she was going to have sex with a 19 y.o., I would have reported him. What if they had been a couple since one was 17 and the other 14? Was it okay for them to kiss in the beginning, but became grooming for rape a year in to the relationship? ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/152 "2022-01-20T16:28:24Z")
Well then, do you consider this 40-year-old a rapist? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/153 "2022-01-20T16:34:31Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Same actual birthdate? Or was one person perhaps months older than the other? A year either way. > [@Moriarty](#): > > Because, according to my reading of your argument, there’s a massive difference. Only when one of them is an adult. > [@Moriarty](#): > > What if they had been a couple since one was 17 and the other 14? I would not have allowed my 14 y.o. to go out with a 17 y.o. in the first place And I have zero interest in continuing to play “Kiddy Sex Rules Lawyer : The RPG” for every scenario you guys want to come up with. I’ve made my own guidelines clear in previous posts. . > [@Esprise\_Me](#): > > Well then, do you consider this 40-year-old a rapist? Not as laid out, because the 18 y.o. is legally an adult, and can meaningfully consent. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/154 "2022-01-20T16:47:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Not as laid out, because the 18 y.o. is legally an adult, and can meaningfully consent. Legal adulthood is a social construct. We could change the laws to make 16-year-olds legal adults in every way; would that make it not rape, in your mind, to have sex with them? An 18-year-old still can’t drink (in the US), rent a car, or work certain jobs, and their brain isn’t finished growing. How meaningful is their consent to someone old enough to be their parent? Why do you think 18 is an appropriate place to draw this arbitrary hard line, and no one else could possibly have a different, valid take? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/155 "2022-01-20T16:55:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And I have zero interest in continuing to play “Kiddy Sex Rules Lawyer : The RPG” for every scenario you guys want to come up with. I’ve made my own guidelines clear in previous posts. Your charged language is poisoning the well. There’s no magic transformation that transforms somebody from a “kiddy” to an “adult” on their 18th birthday. It’s like if you took the metric that a person with a million dollars is rich, and anybody below that is poor. But what if they have $999,999? Still poor. But what if inflation reduces the spending power of their million? Still rich. It’s an arbitrary rigid standard when the parameters are inherently subjective. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/156 "2022-01-20T17:01:29Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So does Bobble. 19 = adult, 16 = child. You are technically correct that 19 is “adult” and 16 is “child”. So are “18 and 17”, So are “56 and 4”. You can use those category names and they are useful for you argument because they conjure up the latter example when people are talking about the former. As such they really aren’t that useful as they don’t accurately reflect the realities of the relationships being discussed nor the potential degree of informed consent nor the potential harm being done. Hence the need, when choosing to prosecute or sentence, to take into account the totality of the situation and not just rely upon imprecise categories. And just to be clear, I’m not _wanting_ adults to have sex with children. If asked to express a preference I would advise against early sexual relationships in general. That is certainly the advice I’ve given my children. However, I cannot go along with a blanket condemnation of all such relationships far less seek criminal prosecution for them with resulting life imprisonment. I also can’t in all honesty say that all such relationships are harmful. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/157 "2022-01-20T18:16:41Z")
Wait what………are you progressive? I don’t keep score, but your zero tolerance attitude and rabid insistence that it’s less heinous to murder a teen girl than it is to have consensual sex with her had me thinking you were probably some sort of ultra-conservative religious fundamentalist. If never seen the idea that rape is worse than murder promoted by anyone other than religious fundamentalists that think sexual defilement is literally worse than death. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/158 "2022-01-20T18:23:53Z")
When I was 16 I had sex with my 20ish year old manager at work and loved every second of it. The only problem was were were in a Geo Metro. I also flirted with her weekly for a year. She was a slightly overweight 20 something movie theatre manager. She was probably the quiet girl in high school who was ignored by most of the boys. I could tell my attention was good for her self-esteem. I could tell she liked it. I was too young to raise a baby (fortunately never came to that), but not too stupid to know what I was doing. I made it happen. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/159 "2022-01-20T18:26:54Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > The only problem was were were in a Geo Metro. I cannot begin to imagine how this worked. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944/160 "2022-01-20T18:53:25Z")
I immediately flashed to _Mallrats._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underage-sex-is-it-rape/957944.md?page=9)