# Underestimating the number of stupid assholes in America **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057 "2012-09-08T01:24:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/81 "2012-09-10T21:39:11Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > People self-identify as conservative more than liberal because conservatives are better marketers than liberals. Talk radio is filled with hate speech where “liberal” is shorthand for “demon spawn of satan”, but when you poll people how they feel about actual ISSUES they are generally left of the republican party platform. > > I have a cite but I can’t find it right now. [Here it is.](http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/progressive-movement/report/2009/03/11/5775/state-of-american-political-ideology-2009/) ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/82 "2012-09-10T21:43:00Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > People self-identify as conservative more than liberal because conservatives are better marketers than liberals. Talk radio is filled with hate speech where “liberal” is shorthand for “demon spawn of satan”, but when you poll people how they feel about actual ISSUES they are generally left of the republican party platform. > > I have a cite but I can’t find it right now. Also, most liberals consider themselves Progressives and don’t self-identify as “Liberals” anymore. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/83 "2012-09-10T22:04:44Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Also, most liberals consider themselves Progressives and don’t self-identify as “Liberals” anymore. Well, it’s not the same thing. “Progressive” is something well to the left of “liberal” and well to the right of “socialist.” ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/84 "2012-09-10T22:09:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Here it is.](http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/progressive-movement/report/2009/03/11/5775/state-of-american-political-ideology-2009/) I will look through this later, I was looking for a The Young Turks video that summarized what I was talking about which would be easier for LonesomePolecat to check out. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/85 "2012-09-10T22:15:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, it’s not the same thing. “Progressive” is something well to the left of “liberal” and well to the right of “socialist.” No, actually, it isn’t. It’s someone who wants polices that progress the nation, not regressive policies like those coming from the right wing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/86 "2012-09-10T23:05:44Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > No, actually, it isn’t. It’s someone who wants polices that progress the nation, not regressive policies like those coming from the right wing. It’s the U.S. equivalent of “social-democratic,” is what it is. As distinct from “democratic socialist” or any other kind, and as distinct from “liberal”. At least, that’s the position I argue in [this old GD thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496350) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/87 "2012-09-11T07:12:55Z")
I think the GOP/conservative movement base is accrued additively from the most diehard constituents of various losing positions: They find people who take a minority, or “losing” view on something, get them fired up enough to make a deal with other such groups–with whom they disagree–and get them to vote against their own interests and contrary to most of their own beliefs for the sake of their one passionate opinion, whether that’s flat taxes, white supremacy, banning abortion, or what have you. Then there are the contrarians who like taking the unpopular position on everything. And then suckers who buy into the idea that there’s a consistent conservative ideology, and they’re \*supposed \*to love military spending while deploring the welfare state, and stuff. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/88 "2012-09-11T08:52:46Z")
A decent plurality of Catholics voted for Obama last presidential election. However, [white Catholics preferred McCain](http://www.pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/How-the-Faithful-Voted.aspx). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/89 "2012-09-11T12:53:18Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > People self-identify as conservative more than liberal because conservatives are better marketers than liberals. Talk radio is filled with hate speech where “liberal” is shorthand for “demon spawn of satan”, but when you poll people how they feel about actual ISSUES they are generally left of the republican party platform. People say they favor all sorts of things. Until you ask them to pay for those things. The real test is how much people are willing to raise their own taxes in order to provide the types of services you’re talking about. Now, that doesn’t affect things like SSM, which isn’t much of an economic issue, but most of the things the government does costs money. If you’ve got a cite that shows people will line up their wish list with their willingness to pay, then I’ll believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/90 "2012-09-11T14:46:52Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > (And anyway, “half the population is dumber than average” is just _ **sooooo** _ much catchier than “half the population is dumber than the mean.”) “Yeah, mean people suck” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/91 "2012-09-11T14:56:03Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > “Yeah, mean people suck” 😛 “… and nice people swallow.” (d&r) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/92 "2012-09-11T15:19:28Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > > [@Chimera](#): > > > > “Yeah, mean people suck” > > “… and nice people swallow.” > > (d&r) Gargling, on the other hand, is just showing off. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/93 "2012-09-11T15:43:41Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Check out the documentary “Jesus Camp”. There are a few Young Earth Creationists deeply disappointed by sex education and science that refuse to allow their children to be educated in such a fashion (and can’t afford private education). Do we have to go over this again? Homeschooling is a response to all sorts of dissatisfactions about public school. There’s a big conservative Christian segment and there is also a big leftwing, ‘alternative’ segment that comes from the standpoint that classrooms reward conformity and squelch creativity. Lots of ‘Back to the Landers’ in both categories, interestingly. Then there are people who just have kids who can’t fit into the standard public school classroom format – too gifted, too twitchy, getting bullied, special needs, whatever. Speaking as someone who homeschooled one kid for a few years. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/94 "2012-09-11T15:50:30Z")
Not to mention that homeschooled children represent only about 3% of the total. if you look at something like evolution, we have about 50% of Americans not accepting it. And most of those were educated before the homeschooling boom of the last decade or so. This is a tiny blip on the radar. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/95 "2012-09-11T16:47:07Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I would like a cite. > > The one I know is in a group of home schoolers who think their school district is too conservative. This is in Orange County, California. As far as I know they are all liberals, and many are atheists. Okay, I found a cite that says mormons homeschool _less_ than the general population, but I would like to find another source. On one hand they have big families so homeschooling would be very expensive, on the other I know lots of mormons have problems with the standard cirriculum. It seems I was right about the evangelicals though: > [@](#): > > The Department of Education report, which finds that 83 percent of home-schooled students’ parents cite “providing religious or moral instruction” as one reason that they home-school—up from 72 percent who said so in a 2003 survey—would seem to suggest that evangelicals could be responsible for much of the growth in the movement. from: [http://www.usnews.com/news/religion/articles/2009/01/09/as-home-schooling-surges-the-evangelical-share-drops](http://www.usnews.com/news/religion/articles/2009/01/09/as-home-schooling-surges-the-evangelical-share-drops) > [@Ulfreida](#): > > Do we have to go over this again? Homeschooling is a response to all sorts of dissatisfactions about public school. There’s a big conservative Christian segment and there is also a big leftwing, ‘alternative’ segment that comes from the standpoint that classrooms reward conformity and squelch creativity. Lots of ‘Back to the Landers’ in both categories, interestingly. Then there are people who just have kids who can’t fit into the standard public school classroom format – too gifted, too twitchy, getting bullied, special needs, whatever. > > Speaking as someone who homeschooled one kid for a few years. The evangelicals VASTLY outnumber the people not putting their kids into school because they are “alternative”. They are a drop in the bucket compared to evangelicals who don’t want their kids learning about evolution. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/96 "2012-09-11T16:49:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > People say they favor all sorts of things. Until you ask them to pay for those things. The real test is how much people are willing to raise their own taxes in order to provide the types of services you’re talking about. Now, that doesn’t affect things like SSM, which isn’t much of an economic issue, but most of the things the government does costs money. If you’ve got a cite that shows people will line up their wish list with their willingness to pay, then I’ll believe it. NO. Wages have stagnated for decades due to Reaganomics and waiting for the trickle down. The middle class shouldn’t shoulder any more of the burden for the country’s bills, and the poor obviously don’t have any money to spare. Apparently the rich don’t really believe in the tax cuts they give themselves since they’re not asking themselves to pay for them right? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/97 "2012-09-11T16:52:59Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > Dear Og, there are some stupid damn people on my Facebook friend list. Maybe stupid is the wrong word. Ignorant. Close-minded. Stupid _is_ the wrong word, and it’s scary as hell why that’s true. Never before in my 40+ years on the planet have I seen so much real intellect, eloquence, and reasoning put to the service of ignorance and closed-mindedness. Smart people are making decent livings generating, propagating, and defending rank bullshit. Still others (including right here on the Dope) are doing so seemingly _pro malo publico_, in a stand on principle - or perhaps _against_ principle. Perhaps it’s an even greater mistake to underestimate the number of _intelligent_ assholes in America. Or the spread and power of their influence. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/98 "2012-09-11T18:41:19Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > \ While corporate lobbyists have no business in our government, you’re dead wrong that it makes no difference which political party is in power. In the 2000s: > > [ul] > [li]Republicans gave us a war of aggression against a country that wasn’t a threat, UNFUNDED no less.[/li][li]Republicans gave us not 1, but 2 unfunded tax gifts to millionaires and billionaires, robbing the nation of desperately needed resources and sending our debt skyrocketing.[/li][li]Republicans gave us an unfunded gift to Big Pharma and a fat lip to seniors with Medicare Part D (and don’t even get me started on HOW they got that bill passed by threatening to fire the Medicare Actuary, placing GUARDS at the door of the House so Representatives couldn’t leave, threatening their members if they didn’t vote the way they wanted, and stopping the vote when it was clear it was about to FAIL, then forcing people to stay until 3 o’fucking clock in the morning when they finally browbeat enough people to cave to their bullying).[/li][li]Republicans gave us the Patriot Act.[/li][li]Republicans gave us Administration-authorized TORTURE.[/li][li]Republicans gave us the worst economic meltdown since the Great Depression, 10 percent unemployment at its peak, an unprecedented number of foreclosures, an unprecedented number of families on assistance from everything from medical care to FOOD.[/li][/ul] > Since 2008, and especially since they regained control of the House in 2010: > [ul] > [li]Republicans gave us an unprecedented number of filibusters in the Senate, effectively changing the rules from needing a simple majority for a bill to win approval, to needing a super-majority.[/li][li]Republicans have given us 83 post offices with shiny new names![/li][li]Republicans gave us trumped up lies about ACORN, stripped them of their funding and forced their closure. Again, because of a LIE.[/li][li]Republicans have given us a big fat waste of our tax dollars spending their time voting 32 times to repeal the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.[/li][li]Republicans played chicken with the Full Faith and Credit of the United States of America and _lost_, which cost us our pristine AAA credit rating for the first time in HISTORY.[/li][/ul] > I could go on but it’s pissing me off too bad. > > On the other hand, without posting the list I previously have that nears 100 things, I’ll be a bit more brief and remind you that in just the first 2 years of Barack Obama’s presidency alone: > [ul] > [li]Democrats passed the first increase in the minimum wage in a decade.[/li][li]Democrats passed the Wounded Warrior Bill, improving military health care and providing a 3.5% pay raise to our troops.[/li][li]Democrats passed a bill to better regulate the student loan industry.[/li][li]Democrats passed Homeland Security funding to address border and transit vulnerabilities.[/li][li]Democrats passed legislation to implement the 9/11 Commission recommendations.[/li][li]Democrats passed the Stimulus bill that included $288,000,000 in tax cuts, making it one of the largest tax cuts in history.[/li][li]Democrats passed the largest land conservation law in nearly two decades.[/li][li]Democrats passed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.[/li][li]Democrats passed the Children’s Health Insurance Reauthorization Act, which provided coverage to 4 million previously uninsured children.[/li][li]Democrats passed the Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act.[/li][li]Democrats passed the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility, and Disclosure (CARD) Act to protect Americans from unfair and deceptive credit card practices.[/li][li]Democrats passed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act[/li][li]Democrats passed the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, ending government bailouts of the financial sector.[/li][/ul] \ I dispute your conclusion that the Democrats are only working for America and the Republicans are only working against it (well, I agree that the Republicans are mostly working for lobbyists to make the rich richer, but I disagree that the Democrats are much different). [From this site:](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-30/democrats-take-lobbyist-cash-as-obama-knocks-special-interests.html) > [@](#): > > Lobbyists raised at least $1.5 million in the first six months of the year to help elect Democrats to the House, according to a report from the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. That was the most of any congressional fundraising committee and almost three times as much as the House Republican campaign committee took in from lobbyists. [From this site:](http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=K01) > [@](#): > > Contributions to federal candidates and political committees by lawyers have increased during the past 10 years, and collectively, they are consistently larger during presidential election years. Each cycle, the contributions significantly favor Democrats. I’m not going to compile a list of laws that the Democrats lobbyists have caused to be passed, because frankly, I don’t care that much, but if you follow the money, it looks like the Democrats are as much in bed with lobbyists as the Republicans, and in my experience, that means that the Democrats pass laws that favour lobbyists just like the Republicans do. The proof is in the pudding, too - if the Democrats were just passing laws that favoured the American middle class rather than just rich Americans, I think you’d see conditions in the US significantly improving, and from this outsider’s seat, that doesn’t seem to be happening. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/99 "2012-09-11T18:50:33Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > And then suckers who buy into the idea that there’s a consistent conservative ideology . . . Well, [there is,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15205486&highlight=wooldridge#post15205486) kindasorta. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057/100 "2012-09-11T19:23:31Z")
[quote=“John\_Mace, post:55, topic:634057”] Name one democratic country in the world where this is true of education. (We’re not talking about healthcare here.) Remember, the proposition is that kids be forced to attend public school, not making sure all kids are able to go to public school. Those are two completely different things, and the latter is already the case in the US as it is most of the developed world. [quote] Huh? Well, I think education is provided free of charge in MOST Democratic countries but not in all. Some public education systems charge tuition. Or are you asking if anyone forces children to go to school? Homeschooling is illegal in most places. > **[Compulsory education](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_education)** > > Compulsory education refers to a period of education that is required of all people and is imposed by the government. This education may take place at a registered school or at home or other places. > Compulsory school attendance or compulsory schooling means that parents are obliged to send their children to a state-approved school. > All countries except Bhutan, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, and Vatican City have compulsory education laws. > During the late 18th and early 19th centuries, most... > **[Homeschooling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_schooling)** > > Homeschooling or home schooling (American English), also known as home education or elective home education (EHE) (British English), is the education of school-aged children at home or a variety of places other than a school. Usually conducted by a parent, tutor, or online teacher, many homeschool families use less formal, more personalized and individualized methods of learning that are not always found in schools. The actual practice of homeschooling varies considerably. The spectrum ranges Be... > **[Homeschooling international status and statistics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling_international_status_and_statistics)** > > The legality of homeschooling varies in many countries. Countries with the most prevalent homeschooling movements include Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Some countries have highly regulated homeschooling programs as an extension of the compulsory school system; others, such as Germany, have outlawed it entirely. In some other countries, while not restricted by law, homeschooling is not socially acceptable, or is considered undesirable,\[why?\] and is v Ho... “some countries have highly regulated home education programs as an extension of the compulsory school system; others, such as Sweden and Germany,[42] have outlawed it entirely.” > [@](#): > > Well, that’s fine in theory, but there is no way you can force children to believe something if their parents don’t want them to. You can expose them to it, but you can’t prevent their parents from telling them it’s the work of the devil (or whatever). From my experience, children are more likely to believe a complete stranger than their parents. But maybe you’re right and most kids end up thinking what their parents want them to think. > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > A lot of the conservatives are like my mother. > … > But I think lots of the older people just don’t keep up and they think they are voting for the Republican Party of 20 years ago. Your mother probably associates Republican with folks like Eisenhower and Democrats with folks like Gerorge Wallace. > [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Perhaps it’s an even greater mistake to underestimate the number of _intelligent_ assholes in America. Or the spread and power of their influence. Getting a bunch of poor people to support tax cuts for the rich? Now THAT’S leadership!!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underestimating-the-number-of-stupid-assholes-in-america/634057.md?page=6)