# Understanding Child Endangerment - Baby left alone in car **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 16, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369 "2010-04-16T17:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/21 "2010-04-16T19:09:19Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > [Responding to **Bearflag70**] > I think part of your confusion may be because the Court you quote is talking about what appears to be a charge of involuntary manslaughter ( a felony), which requires a different kind of proof than that necessary for child endangerment. The court considered the endangerment statute in question and held that a violation of the statute required criminal negligence. The court found no criminal negligence. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/22 "2010-04-16T19:15:03Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > A 2010 Puliter-Prize winner [covered this topic.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549.html) > > Interesting topic, well-written, and wrist-slittingly depressing. Yes, it is. It’s also completely nothing like what happened in this case. Did you read the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/23 "2010-04-16T19:16:56Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > But if I knew I was getting beyond just chilly and into danger, I could do something about it. An infant couldn’t recognize that danger or do anything about it. > > I’m also quite a bit more massive than the baby. A baby would lose heat a lot faster than I would, and so would be in greater danger of hypothermia. That’s part of my question … whether an infant is at serious risk of harm at 54 degrees under the facts stated and whether that risk of harm is or should be enough to make a crime out of what happened. The root of my inquiry is really whether the prosecutor knows it is just “sending a message” to dumb parents by charging these idiots or if the prosecutor really thinks it has enough to convict these idiots. I can see where these idiots can be potentially let off the hook under criminal law, but I still think they are unfit idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/24 "2010-04-16T19:28:07Z")
I’m trying to reconcile the “leaving the kids in the house” case with the car case. In the house case, the youngest child was 2 years old. In this case, the child was only 7 weeks old. Wonder if that’s something to hang a hat on. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/25 "2010-04-16T19:32:38Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > Also agreed, but I wouldn’t think the risk of a “chilly” infant would be enough to be criminal. Bear in mind, it was 54 degs _outside_. It is going to be a lot different temperature \*inside \*a closed up car. ---
**Author:** ![sugar\_and\_spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sugar\_and\_spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugar_and_spice)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/26 "2010-04-16T19:33:36Z")
The other thing that could happen is that someone could break into the car, to steal something other than the baby. Maybe the radio, or they thought the diaper bag was a purse. Then the baby’s in a car with a broken window. Not saying it’s likely, but if you’re looking for things that could happen in a parking garage that’s one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/27 "2010-04-16T19:34:00Z")
The house case is from 1961, when expectations were likely somewhat different than they are today. Also note that a home is generally considered a secure location–passing strangers can’t just walk in. A car in a parking garage is less secure, and likely to have considerable foot traffic in the vicinity, plus people under the influence of various substances. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/28 "2010-04-16T19:43:59Z")
From this discussion, it looks like the prosecution might have enough ammunition to make a case of it to get some kind of plea bargain, but it’s uncertain whether the risks of harm in this case are substantial enough to get a conviction if it goes to trial. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/29 "2010-04-16T19:53:09Z")
I think the germane point isn’t a laundry list of what could happen, but the simple fact that a seven week old baby is completely helpless, and needs its parents to protect it or to be left in a situation where you can reasonably expect it to be safe (its crib at home, etc.). The only way to get the point across to some people of what they are expected to do is to make not doing it criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Kalypso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/df705f/32.png) [@Kalypso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalypso)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/30 "2010-04-16T19:56:58Z")
I would say that citing this: [http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d06\_7/vc15620.htm](http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d06_7/vc15620.htm) it would likely be illegal to leave the child in the car due to the cold and young age of the child being a risk to its health. I remember looking this up when I had a baby, because a few times I locked the car and dashed 20 feet into the gas station to pay (if I could see the car through the window at all times) if the baby was sleeping. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/31 "2010-04-16T20:11:53Z")
Nice link, thanks. Here’s the statute: > [@](#): > > Prohibition Against Unattended Child in Vehicle > > 1. (a) A parent, legal guardian, or other person responsible for a child who is 6 years of age or younger may not leave that child inside a motor vehicle without being subject to the supervision of a person who is 12 years of age or older, under either of the following circumstances: > > **(1) Where there are conditions that present a significant risk to the child’s health or safety.** > > (2) When the vehicle’s engine is running or the vehicle’s keys are in the ignition, or both. > > (b) A violation of subdivision (a) is an infraction punishable by a fine of one hundred dollars ($100), except that the court may reduce or waive the fine if the defendant establishes to the satisfaction of the court that he or she is economically disadvantaged and the court, instead, refers the defendant to a community education program that includes education on the dangers of leaving young children unattended in motor vehicles, and provides certification of completion of that program. Upon completion of that program, the defendant shall provide that certification to the court. The court may, at its discretion, require any defendant described in this section to attend an education program on the dangers of leaving young children unattended in motor vehicles. > > (c) Nothing in this section shall preclude prosecution under both this section and Section 192 of the Penal Code, or Section 273a of that code, or any other provision of law. > > (d) (1) Subdivision (b) and Section 40000.1 do not apply if an unattended child is injured or medical services are rendered on that child because of a violation described in subdivision (a). > > (2) Nothing in this subdivision precludes prosecution under any other provision of law. > Added Sec. 2, Ch. 855, Stats. 2001. Effective January 1, 2002. > Amended Sec. 222, Ch. 664, Stats. 2002. Effective January 1, 2003. The bold part is the same issue raised in the OP though. Are the facts given sufficient to to be a “significant risk to the child’s health or safety?” How so? That’s the gist of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/32 "2010-04-16T20:12:09Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Bear in mind, it was 54 degs _outside_. It is going to be a lot different temperature \*inside \*a closed up car. Well, that’s the thing. Is the interior going to get too hot for the baby? Too cold? Or will it stay in a nice middle range, for 2.5 hours or more, where the baby is not at risk either of hypothermia or overheating? Because if it doesn’t, nobody’s in a position to save the kid. Or, as others have pointed out, the kid could choke on anything from a corner of his blanket to his own vomit. Rather than go for exhaustiveness, the point, as **Cat Whisperer** said, is that infants are helpless, and vulnerable in ways that even a toddler isn’t, let alone an adult. If they have such low regard for their child, I’m sure there are thousands of couples who would LOVE to adopt the kid. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/33 "2010-04-16T20:12:38Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Yes, it is. It’s also completely nothing like what happened in this case. Did you read the OP? From the article linked: > [@](#): > > Raelyn Balfour is what is commonly called a type-A personality. She is the first to admit that her temperament contributed to the death of her son, Bryce, two years ago. It happened on March 30, 2007, the day she accidentally left the 9-month-old in the parking lot of the Charlottesville judge advocate general’s office, where she worked as a transportation administrator. The high temperature that day was only in the 60s, but the biometrics and thermodynamics of babies and cars combine mercilessly: Young children have lousy thermostats, and heat builds quickly in a closed vehicle in the sun. The temperature in Balfour’s car that day topped 110 degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/34 "2010-04-16T20:19:58Z")
When my kid awas an infant, I would never leave him in a car with all of the doors closed _even if I was standing next to the car with the keys in my hand_. To get him out of the back seat, I’d open my door, get out, open his door, get him out, close his door, and then close my door. Paranoid? Maybe. But it’s good procedure. Baby is never alone in closed car - ever - under any circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/35 "2010-04-16T20:21:59Z")
The article is about the tragedy of people who accidentally leave a baby in a car. Not people who leave a baby in a car on purpose to go gamble. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/36 "2010-04-16T20:40:14Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > A 2010 Puliter-Prize winner [covered this topic.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549.html) > > Interesting topic, well-written, and wrist-slittingly depressing. I just read this, and wanted to thank you for posting it. It was a very moving story, extraordinary really. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/37 "2010-04-16T20:58:39Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > From the article linked: > [@](#): > > heat builds quickly in a closed vehicle in the sun. The article is irrelevant in that the car in the OP was not in the sun. It was 8 pm. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/38 "2010-04-16T20:59:16Z")
Seven weeks? A baby that age needs to eat about every 2 - 2 1/2 hours. At that point he’d probably been without food for three hours if they fed him immediately before they left home. And who knows how much longer they planned to leave him in there? Hunger probably won’t cause permanent damage but it could and probably would lead to desperate crying, which could lead to choking or vomiting. And the flailing that goes with it could very easily get him tangled up with blankets or straps and hurt him that way. I know these are kind of worst case things, but isn’t that why small ones have bigger people to keep an eye on them? So they don’t get into those situations? ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/39 "2010-04-16T21:03:13Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think the germane point isn’t a laundry list of what could happen, but the simple fact that a seven week old baby is completely helpless, and needs its parents to protect it or to be left in a situation where you can reasonably expect it to be safe (its crib at home, etc.). The only way to get the point across to some people of what they are expected to do is to make not doing it criminal. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Or, as others have pointed out, the kid could choke on anything from a corner of his blanket to his own vomit. > > Rather than go for exhaustiveness, the point, as **Cat Whisperer** said, is that infants are helpless, and vulnerable in ways that even a toddler isn’t, let alone an adult. I agree babies are helpless and need protection, but I would think the state would have to actually identify a significant risk of harm in this case if it is going to convict someone of criminal negligence or endangerment. I doubt it will be enough to simply say “babies are helpless” without identifying some significant risk of harm in this case that this baby was helpless from. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369/40 "2010-04-16T21:07:12Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > Nice link, thanks. Here’s the statute: > > The bold part is the same issue raised in the OP though. Are the facts given sufficient to to be a “significant risk to the child’s health or safety?” How so? That’s the gist of the thread. At that age, in my opinion, simply leaving the baby alone for two and a half hours, under _any_ circumstances, is a risk to the child’s health and safety. They simply cannot be left alone that long. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/understanding-child-endangerment-baby-left-alone-in-car/536369.md?page=3)