# Undervalued athletes **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 23, 2023, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955 "2023-10-23T13:57:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/21 "2023-10-24T00:17:18Z")
For current MLB players, it’s tough to beat the Cardinals. They’ve traded away Adolis Garcia, Randy Arozarena, Zac Gallen, Sandy Alcantara, Lane Thomas, Harrison Bader and Like Voit (among others). ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/22 "2023-10-24T00:27:47Z")
Eh. I think Scholes was underrated in his time and overrated now. At the time he was probably considered the weakest of the Keane/Giggs/Beckham/Scholes midfield, but in hindsight is the best of those, albeit not head and shoulders above. “Greats of the game” is a pretty squishy concept, but I don’t think I’d have him in my first tier. I was going to say Kante, but 24 isn’t that old. For some reason I thought he was ~4 years older than he is and that he broke into Leicester at 27-28. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/23 "2023-10-24T02:18:08Z")
The Cardinals bigger mistake might have been trading Steve Carlton for Rick Wise. Carlton had gone 20-9 in 1971 and wanted a $100,000 contract, so the Cardinals dumped him for Wise, a serviceable pitcher from the Phillies - but no Steve Carlton. Kurt Warner was an undrafted nobody who had failed in a tryout with the Packers and was playing in the Arena League and NFL Europe when he caught on with the Rams as a third-stringer who got into one game. The next season starting QB Trent Green went down in pre-season and Warner stepped in to lead the team to a Super Bowl victory, a second Super bowl, and later won another Super Bowl with Arizona. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/24 "2023-10-24T02:31:14Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > In the 80s I was amazed that the Cardinals traded Keith Hernandez and the Expos traded Gary Carter, both to the Mets. That enabled the incredible 86 Mets team. The Cardinals had their reasons with Hernandez, but still… he had been an MVP and was the best fielding first baseman of all time. Seems they definitely undervalued him. Carter had been an institution in Montreal. Maybe they thought he was getting too old and beat up. They were wrong. Well, maybe. After 1986 Carter was indeed pretty washed up, as was Hernandez after 1987. But flags fly forever. > [@bump](#): > > As far as sheer undervaluation goes, Jeff Bagwell of the Houston Astros has to be up there somewhere. Early in his career, he was a decent, but far from spectacular AA hitter. The Red Sox traded him to Houston for late-career reliever Larry Andersen. This trade is in hindsight, considered the second worst trade in MLB history, behind the Red Sox trading Babe Ruth to New York. Actually, Bags was famously predicted to win the batting title, according to some statistical projections. He didn’t, but won the Rookie of the Year anyway, and was already developing his power. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/25 "2023-10-24T02:48:22Z")
Bart Starr was drafted as a quarterback by the Packers in the seventeenth round of the 1956 NFL Draft. Of course, it was a smaller league back then, with only 12 teams, but he was still only the 200th selection of that draft, roughly equivalent to being drafted late in the 6th round of the modern NFL draft. He spent his first three years in the NFL as a backup and sometime-starter, until Vince Lombardi became the Packers’ coach in 1959; Lombardi installed Starr as his starter partway through that first season. In the next eight seasons (1960-67), Starr led his team to the NFL Championship Game six times (winning five), won the first two Super Bowls, and was a first-ballot Hall of Famer. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/26 "2023-10-24T03:08:09Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > Derek Jeter was drafted as the 6th pick in 1992. Which means five teams didn’t take him. It’s still a high draft number, but he seems to have been undervalued relative to what he accomplished. This is so common in baseball, though. Baseball’s draft isn’t random, but it’s close. My favorite draft fact is that maybe the two best third basemen of all time, George Brett and Mike Schmidt, were drafted right one after the other… in the second round. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/27 "2023-10-24T03:10:40Z")
> [@TheGunIsMightierThanThePen](#): > > Two-time NBA MVP Nikola Jokic was drafted in the second round (41st overall pick), by far the lowest-drafted player ever to become MVP. Jokic’s draft selection literally first appeared onscreen during a Taco Bell commercial for their new Quesaritos. > **[Jokic Draft ESPN](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d3sS05uP_Q%2F)** > > ESPN airs the Selection of Nikola Jokic in the NBA draft ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/28 "2023-10-24T03:10:50Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Kurt Warner […] later won another Super Bowl with Arizona. The Cardinals lost to the Steelers. Oddly, you are the second person in the last few months I’ve heard say that Warner won that Superbowl with the Cards. Both times I’ve heard that I found it very discordant because the Cardinals are one of the teams that have never won a Superbowl. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/29 "2023-10-24T04:46:49Z")
Steve Largent is a good candidate. He was drafted in the 4th round by the Houston Oilers. After the pre-season, he was going to be cut but was traded to Seattle (an expansion team in their first year) for an 8th-round pick. He played 14 years for Seattle and held several career receiving records at the time of his retirement. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/30 "2023-10-24T12:02:17Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The owner of the Boston Red Sox once traded away a pitcher to the Yankees in order to fund some musical. I can’t remember his name…similar to some candy bar i think… anybody recall this guy? I think he did a lot better at the Yankees. Let’s end that myth. Ruth was traded in 1920; the musical opened in 1926. Someone pointed out that the play the musical was based on opened in 1920. True, but it opened three weeks before the trade, and was a hit. Frazer didn’t need the money; he traded Ruth because Ruth threatened to sit out the season. He was traded to the Yankees because rumors made them wary of the White Sox’s offer of Joe Jackson. No other team would trade with them. (Look up the insurrectos). ---
**Author:** ![Jegpeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jegpeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jegpeg)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/31 "2023-10-24T12:27:59Z")
How about Jamie Vardy, someone who not only was undervalued at an age when teams would look for potential but well into the age he would be expcted to be in his prime. The way soccer players are developed (at least in Europe) is professional clubs will have a youth system of kids that might have potential, the vast majority of these are released at the age of 16 and only those that have a decent chance of making the team remain. Some of these are loaned to lower tier teams until they are good enough to play for the team that owns them. Jamie Vardy was released from (second tier at the time) Sheffield Wednesday at the age of 16. He played as an amature and at the age of 20 he got into the first team of Stockbridge Park Steels in the 8th tier of English football which earned him £30 ($40) a week. (At this age future stars are nomally playing in a top tier league such as the Premier league or at least in tier 2 or 3 either owned by that team or on loan from a top club). At the age of 23 Halifax in the 7th tier signed him and a year later his skills attracted 5th tier Fleetwood Town. Single A Baseball could be considered 5th tier. Now his skills were starting to be valued and a year later at the age of 25 he moved to Leicester City in the 2nd tier (The Championship), the details of the trade are not public but it is rumoured he was the first “non-league” (outside top 4 tiers) player to attact a transfer fee of £1m. 2 Years later Leicester won promotion to the premier league where he excelled. In Leicester’s unlikely title winning Season he won both the Player of the season and footballer of the year awards (essentially voted MVP by both players and football writers) and in 2019/20 won the golden boot for most goals scored. In 2015 he also became a member of the England squad. ---
**Author:** ![mcgato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mcgato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcgato)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/32 "2023-10-24T12:59:37Z")
Johnny Unitas was a late draft pick in the NFL and didn’t make the team. He spent a year working construction and playing semi-pro games on the weekends. The next year, he did make it back into the NFL as a backup. Eventually got into the starting lineup, and eventually turned into one of the best in the game. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/33 "2023-10-24T13:05:11Z")
Which story is more impressive, Starr, Unitas, or Brady? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/34 "2023-10-24T13:06:38Z")
So you’re saying Ruth was not undervalued by the Red Sox? Ruth is 90% myth, which is quite amazing considering the accomplishments of the real 10% playing the game. Ruth was undervalued by the Red Sox as demonstrated by his performance on the Yankees. The details are just adornment. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/35 "2023-10-24T13:13:32Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Frazer didn’t need the money; he traded Ruth because Ruth threatened to sit out the season. He was traded to the Yankees because rumors made them wary of the White Sox’s offer of Joe Jackson. “Frazee.” Frazee DID have financial difficulties at the time, just not specifically because of “No No Nanette.” He had paid a lot of money to buy the Red Sox and had gone into debt to complete the purchase, and the war and pandemic had really hit his businesses hard. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/36 "2023-10-24T13:16:53Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Ruth was undervalued by the Red Sox I decided to look it up a bit, and here’s what I found: [Baseball HoF](https://baseballhall.org/discover/sale-of-ruth-to-yankees-shook-baseball-world) > [@](#): > > “The price was something enormous, but I do not care to name the figures. It was an amount the club could not afford to refuse,” said Frazee when making the announcement of Ruth’s sale to the press at Red Sox headquarters. “I should have preferred to have taken players in exchange for Ruth, but no club could have given me the equivalent in men without wrecking itself, and so the deal had to be made on a cash basis. No other club could afford to give the amount the Yankees have paid for him, and I do not mind saying I think they are taking a gamble. With the money, the Boston club can now go into the market and buy other players and have a stronger and better team in all respects than we would have had if Ruth had remained with us. > > “I do not wish to detract one iota from Ruth’s ability as a ballplayer nor from his value as an attraction, but there is no getting away from the fact that despite his 29 home runs, the Red Sox finished sixth in the race last season,” Frazee added. “What the Boston fans want, I take it, and what I want because they want it, is a winning team, rather than a one-man team which finishes in sixth place.” > > (snip) > > “I am not at liberty to tell the price we paid,” smiled Yankees co-owner Jacob Ruppert after he had made the announcement of the Ruth acquisition. “I can say positively, however, that it is by far the biggest price ever paid for a ballplayer. I think it’s fair to say that the Sox definitely highly valued Ruth, and demanded a great deal for him, but it’s also fair to say that even that wasn’t enough. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/37 "2023-10-24T13:23:32Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I think it’s fair to say that the Sox definitely highly valued Ruth, and demanded a great deal for him, but it’s also fair to say that even that wasn’t enough. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/38 "2023-10-24T13:41:52Z")
Sure, but they traded him when he was just an AA player before he started putting up the big numbers. I mean, they all knew he was good, but the Red Sox apparently didn’t think he was _that_ good. Either way, they seriously undervalued him, or they’d never have traded him for Larry Andersen. ---
**Author:** ![ThatCanadianGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@ThatCanadianGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThatCanadianGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/39 "2023-10-24T15:01:59Z")
I think the list could be endless. It’s like what Billy Bean says in Moneyball talking to a scout, “You don’t know shit”, or words to that effect. I’m sure some times a team lets go of a player knowing full well the player may be good but they may not have room for him on the roster. Or it’s a cost-saving measure. Teams also treat players like commodities. David Ortiz for example, I don’t know why the Twins let him go. He did well for them, I guess they just didn’t see the future potential. Pedro Martinez was let go by the Dodgers because they saw him as short and would not have much stamina as a starter. Don’t know why they thought that, he did well out of bullpen for LA in his one full season, could have been another Mariano if stayed a reliever. The Dodgers also needed a second baseman. DeShields looked like he had value. Turns out, not as much as Pedro so poor evaluation there whereas Montreal made him a starter right away. ---
**Author:** ![ThatCanadianGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@ThatCanadianGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThatCanadianGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955/40 "2023-10-24T15:05:31Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > In the 80s I was amazed that the Cardinals traded Keith Hernandez and the Expos traded Gary Carter, both to the Mets. The Expos owner did not believe as I recall to pay athletes millions. They also were not winning with Carter and thought a trade could get them some good players. They did get 4 players for him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/undervalued-athletes/991955.md?page=3)