# "Underwater Basket Weaving": Huh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 7, 2003, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underwater-basket-weaving-huh/217501 "2003-12-07T04:38:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underwater-basket-weaving-huh/217501/21 "2003-12-07T18:25:24Z")
Nor is my coding, apparently. Let’s try the [link](http://www.alaskafurexchange.com/bbaskets.shtml) again. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underwater-basket-weaving-huh/217501/22 "2003-12-07T18:38:46Z")
**Chefguy**. First, the link is [http://www.alaskafurexchange.com/bbaskets.shtml](http://www.alaskafurexchange.com/bbaskets.shtml) But my question would be–how long have these baskets been around? If they were around before 1958, then you might have a minor point. But for the phrase to have morphed to college courses, you’d need to supply some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underwater-basket-weaving-huh/217501/23 "2003-12-07T18:53:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samclem \* > \*\ ***Chefguy**. First, the link is [http://www.alaskafurexchange.com/bbaskets.shtml](http://www.alaskafurexchange.com/bbaskets.shtml) > > But my question would be–how long have these baskets been around? If they were around before 1958, then you might have a minor point. But for the phrase to have morphed to college courses, you’d need to supply some reason. \*\* A minor point? Okay, I’ll do your homework for you. Try [this site](http://www.co.north-slope.ak.us/ihlchome/ihlcbook/baleen/baleen3/baleen3.htm) for some history of the craft. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underwater-basket-weaving-huh/217501/24 "2003-12-07T20:41:47Z")
Good, scholarly cite. It still fails to link the baskets to the phrase as used in the US in the 1950’s(and possibly earlier). ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underwater-basket-weaving-huh/217501/25 "2003-12-08T00:00:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samclem \* > \*\*Good, scholarly cite. > > It still fails to link the baskets to the phrase as used in the US in the 1950’s(and possibly earlier). \*\* So your contention would be…what? That some frat boys were sitting around and one of them suddenly had the brain storm of “Hey, youse know whut would be a real hoot? \*Underwater basket weaving! Nyuk, nyuk!” While the above is possible, it’s unlikely. It would seem _more_ likely that the etymology of the phrase derived from the fact there really _is_ such a thing, and that while it _is_ practiced in some cultures, it sounds sorta funny even in the context of, oh, say, a _sociology class_. As \*_timgregory_ pointed out, it’s not only the Eskimo people who do this. The weaving of fine reeds is facilitated by water, a practice that has been around far longer than baleen weaving, although I believe that the reeds are only soaked in water, rather than woven under it. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underwater-basket-weaving-huh/217501/26 "2003-12-08T00:01:49Z")
Oh crap. All coding mistakes must hang by the neck until dead. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underwater-basket-weaving-huh/217501/27 "2003-12-08T01:17:27Z")
**Chefguy**. I couldn’t find anywhere that the baleen strips needed to be woven while under water. The site seemed to say that it was soaked, just the way reeds are. But I could have missed it. It just seems like a stretch for a minor craft from Alaska to have been the inspiration for the term. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underwater-basket-weaving-huh/217501/28 "2003-12-08T22:49:41Z")
Quoth **Otto** : > [@](#): > > Slightly off-topic, but there is (or was) a Basketry merit badge in Boy Scouts. It was widely derided within Scouting as being a nothing badge, one that any idiot could pick up in a day to boost their badge count That’s only because most merit badge instructors cut out half the requirements. To get the badge, you’re supposed to weave a basket and cane a chair, but nobody I knew who got the badge ever caned a chair, unless they got it from my Mom (who insisted on both). Also, most of the baskets are made using a standard kit, where most of the work is already done (again, my Mom didn’t let the guys off that easily). Several of the materials used in basketweaving (and in chair caning, for that matter) do need to be soaked before use to make them pliable, but it’s not like they harden instantly when you take them out of the water. You reach into a tub of water, pull out some reed (or grapevine, or presumably baleen), and weave it into your basket out of the water. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underwater-basket-weaving-huh/217501/29 "2003-12-09T00:10:06Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Chefguy_ > While this phrase has become synonymous with “useless”, “underwater basket weaving” refers to the making of baskets out of [baleen](http://www.alaskafurexchange.com/bbaskets.shtml) by the eskimo people. Different species, perhaps, and definitely different culture, but I have seen some different handicrafts made from baleen at the [New Bedford Whaling Museum](http://www.whalingmuseum.org/)(\*). Not baskets, but other stuff like woven bracelets (IIRC). The strips of baleen were soaked, but removed in order to weave, and as **samclem** indicates, this is similar to how most plant materials are woven. No underwater weaving necessary. \*I grew up near there, and went more times than I can count during field trips and summer visits. This is all from memory, however. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underwater-basket-weaving-huh/217501/30 "2003-12-09T02:09:45Z")
As an update, I’ve got some contributions from members of the American Dialect Society Mailing List. Barry Popik, the renowned database searcher, found a 1952 cite which simply used the term “basket weaving” among others as an easy course for a football player to take. Another poster, Douglas G. Wilson, suggested that it morphed from “basket weaving” as a simple task for people who might be children, mentally deficient, etc. into the modified “underwater” much as it was sometimes referred to in other adjectival phrases. So, I DO suggest that it was early on used as a disparaging term, “basket weaving”, to mean that it didn’t take much intelectt, and morphed into “underwater basket weaving” and other types of comments that belittled the basket weaver. I hope I spelled most of this correctly, because I’m gonna hit “submit” ---
**Author:** ![disponibilite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@disponibilite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/disponibilite)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underwater-basket-weaving-huh/217501/31 "2003-12-09T02:11:23Z")
I definitely remember the phrase being used in the mid-50’s pretty commonly referring to easy college courses. Probably much older than that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underwater-basket-weaving-huh/217501.md?page=1)