# Underworld. Wow. Freakin' wow. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 20, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847 "2003-09-20T21:11:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ddgryphon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/21 "2003-09-22T09:51:31Z")
Well, I’ll chime in with my response to it: Not great cinema, but great fun. I got the impression that Lycan was being used as a derogatory term for the uppity slaves remember the Lycans served the Vamires until one had the temerity to love and impregnate (you can impregnate a vampire?) the Master’s daughter. Yeah, some lazy plot holes and some weaponry inconsistencies, but I have to admit, I found it on the whole fun. BTW I just LOVED it when Selene decks Craven a good one Also, if I’d been around for more than a century, I’d have found a better name for myself than Craven. He’s brave sir Craven, brave sir Craven – shut up! I’d see a sequel – I had too much fun not to. ---
**Author:** ![karomon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@karomon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/karomon)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/22 "2003-09-22T10:06:37Z")
> [@](#): > > I got the impression that Lycan was being used as a derogatory term for the uppity slaves Yah. The scene at the end, especially - the one where the big black werewolf guy is confronted by the vampire with two whips. While technically confusing and kind of dumb, it was, er, ripe with metaphor. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/23 "2003-09-22T11:28:47Z")
I really liked this movie. Its not high cinema on any level, but it doesn’t treat its audience like they were stupid. They throw the plot at you fast and hard, and you have to just take it in an eat it or ignore it. It will help if you actually know what verewolves and vampires are. The acting was perfect for the flick, too. You can’t make this sort of thing too serious, or it won’t work. You need the Eurotrash vampires and Lucian hamming it up. Its supposed to be a little campy, but with enough atmosphere that it gives us fanboys the shivers. Its atmosphere on a stick, and one of the better popcorn flicks I’ve seen. > [@](#): > > The word was that the plot consisted of a series of fights and little else. It opened with one and closed with one, but they were done it a surprisingly low-key style. In between there was some short fighting, but it was merged with the flow of the movie pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Made\_in\_Macau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@Made\_in\_Macau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Made_in_Macau)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/24 "2003-09-22T11:47:29Z")
Doesn’t ‘vampires’ have 2 syllables??? It’s not ‘vam-pie-yuz’ Haven’t seen the film but did see Kate Beckinsale interviewed on BBC the other day. She didn’t seem terribly proud of it to me. And Off topic, if I were her I’d be very pissed off at constant questions about her dad. He was a TV actor who died when she was 4? 5? ---
**Author:** ![Horseflesh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horseflesh/32/7502_2.png) [@Horseflesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horseflesh)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/25 "2003-09-22T13:13:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by karomon \* > **Yeah, they go over this.** Okay, I wasn’t aware that he was referring to that. I thought he may have been talking about a common source for lycanthropy and vampirism and they somehow split. So Lycans were slaves or guardians of the vampires, huh? How exactly did vamps keep their thumb on the werewolves during the day? Or is there ever sunlight in Underworld? We know there was at least 6 centuries ago when the vamps executed one of their own. Did Lucian then rise up and lead a revolt of the Lycans back when? It really doesn’t say but it leads us to believe that. And what was the purpose of Lucian injecting himself with Abomination Boy’s blood in the final act? Someone mentioned the look and feel of Bladerunner in this movie. Anyone notice that when the Head Vamp and the The Abomination were fighting at the end that Vampy uttered Roy Batty’s famous line, “Time to die.”? ---
**Author:** ![karomon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@karomon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/karomon)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/26 "2003-09-22T13:31:46Z")
> [@](#): > > So Lycans were slaves or guardians of the vampires, huh? How exactly did vamps keep their thumb on the werewolves during the day? Lucian, for one, said that he didn’t harbor any ill will towards his vampire masters. Maybe it wasn’t exactly forced servitude. > [@](#): > > Did Lucian then rise up and lead a revolt of the Lycans back when? It really doesn’t say but it leads us to believe that. And what was the purpose of Lucian injecting himself with Abomination Boy’s blood in the final act? In the flashback scene, you see Lucian rage at his wife’s death and break free of his chains. I think that means mutiny. Michael’s blood has the ability to absorb both vampire and werewolf cells, so I guess the idea was that his blood was going to make the werewolves become half-vampire as well. As for the last scene of the movie, with the mad scientist’s blood dripping into Marcus’s tomb and waking him up- Wasn’t the scientist a lycan? Wouldn’t his blood therefore kill Marcus, instead of waking him up? ---
**Author:** ![Horseflesh](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horseflesh/32/7502_2.png) [@Horseflesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horseflesh)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/27 "2003-09-22T13:42:15Z")
Speaking of the last scene,In the epilogue Selene mentions that two Old Ones had been killed, one by her own hand. While we are all mightily impressed by her salad chopping ability (get it? Salad chopping. _Head_ of lettuce? Never mind.) when she offed Victor, they pan down to Marcus waking up. So who was the second Old One that was killed? ---
**Author:** ![dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorkusmalorkusmafia/32/7266_2.png) [@dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorkusmalorkusmafia)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/28 "2003-09-22T14:05:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Doesn’t ‘vampires’ have 2 syllables??? > It’s not ‘vam-pie-yuz’ You are confused because we speak American English. Vam - Pie - Erz would be closer to how we would say it. Also, remember our r’s sound different than Brittish r’s. ---
**Author:** ![ddgryphon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/29 "2003-09-22T14:20:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Horseflesh \* > \*\*Speaking of the last scene,In the epilogue Selene mentions that two Old Ones had been killed, one by her own hand. While we are all mightily impressed by her salad chopping ability (get it? Salad chopping. _Head_ of lettuce? Never mind.) when she offed Victor, they pan down to Marcus waking up. So who was the second Old One that was killed? \*\* It was: Amelia or whatever her name was on the train ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/30 "2003-09-22T15:37:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by karomon \* > \*\*Yeah, they go over this. The ancestor is a warlord who developed an immunity to some disease that was killing everyone else. His cells were able to merge with the cells of the virus. He had "at least two"children (a second after this is stated, we find out he actually had three.) One was bitten by a bat, the second was bitten by a wolf, the third was bitten by nothing at all. The bat and wolf bites merged with the virus and caused the siblings to become the first vampire and, er, lycan. The remaining sibling went on to have a perfectly normal life, and was the ancestor of Michael. \*\* This is the most hilariously stupid explanation for the origin of vampires and werewolves that I’ve ever heard…and I’ve read my share of bad vampire/werewolf stories. I’m really glad I had no plans to see this movie. Thanks for the spoilers, though! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/31 "2003-09-22T17:10:50Z")
> [@](#): > > This is the most hilariously stupid explanation for the origin of vampires and werewolves that I’ve ever heard…and I’ve read my share of bad vampire/werewolf stories. In the words of someone I saw the film with: “midichlorians.” ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/32 "2003-09-22T17:27:32Z")
First, it was Kraven, not Craven. But ha ha look he’s a craven coward and his name is Kraven and whoo boy, that kind of writing just hits you from left field. I mean, who but a community theater reject could have come up with that. Second, Mister Kraven, look, for god’s sake, you’re in a movie, you’re not out LARPing. Let’s have your A-game for the camera, m’kay? Third, Kate, Kate, darling Kate, your portrayal of Selene was … well, who cares; I was just pissed that you didn’t hop into a slinky evening gown when the opportunity presented itself. Leather and PVC is all fine and good, but let’s see what other BarbieGoth dress-up games we can play. I was thinking something black, full-length, deep collar, slit up the thigh, showing just the gleam of a pistol strapped to your upper le-… Sorry, I digress. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/33 "2003-09-22T18:30:50Z")
**lno** you just made my day. ‘A-game for the camera’ indeed. Really, I must say that Kate Beckinsale’s performance was one of the most disappointing things about this movie. I was really looking forward to it as a departure from her norm, this being a dark action/thriller flick. But incredibly, she played the same sensitive, underappreciated girly-girl that she always plays. I really wanted to see her at her badassedest, but 100% of her badassness in this movie existed in the realm of suspension of disbelief. We were just supposed to assume that she was badass because well, we just were. And on top of that, she runs like a girl. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/34 "2003-09-22T19:54:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by karomon \* > **Tommorow, join me in burning all of my paper money in order to avoid another unfortunate movie choice.** Well, I [did warn y’all](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=210267), [twice](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=209917). Why people waste their money on stuff like this and [ignore legitimately excellent films](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=211272) is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/35 "2003-09-22T20:58:47Z")
So, does White Wolf’s lawsuit have a chance? ---
**Author:** ![sciguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@sciguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciguy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/36 "2003-09-22T21:47:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by karomon \* > \*\*Michael’s blood has the ability to absorb both vampire and werewolf cells, so I guess the idea was that his blood was going to make the werewolves become half-vampire as well. \*\* This is my main WTF plot hole. It appeared to me that Lucien’s plan was to inject himself with Michael’s blood (since it had the “untainted” genetic strain), followed by the blood of a vampire to make himself an “abomination” mixture, since he was already a Lycan. This mixture would presumably have resistences to silver and sunlight, but after Kraven shoots Lucien with the silver nitrate bullets, the big black Lycan comes in with a backpack full of vampire blood, sees Lucien, drops the pack (which conveniently falls open to show the syringes) and goes off rampaging. In order to Lucien to get back into the battle, he’d have to step over them, right? Why not inject himself? > [@](#): > > \*\*As for the last scene of the movie, with the mad scientist’s blood dripping into Marcus’s tomb and waking him up- > Wasn’t the scientist a lycan? Wouldn’t his blood therefore kill Marcus, instead of waking him up? \*\* They mentioned that Marcus was a descendent of Corvinas, so he’d already have the vampire/Michael mixture, so the Lycan blood would make him the full three-way mix. This is probably intended to be uber-Michael’s nemesis should they do a sequel. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/37 "2003-09-22T22:17:23Z")
I read the review on Salon, and they made an interesting point. It felt like the filmmakers were really interested in the ideas behind the movie. It wasn’t some cynical attempt by a bunch of talentless hacks to cash in on a perceived trend in America’s youth culture. This movie was clearly made because the filmmakers though werewolves and vampires were effin’ awesome. Unfortunetly, they’re still talentless hacks, so the end result was… well, you know. Still, I give them credit for their good intentions. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/38 "2003-09-23T00:48:39Z")
I swear I thought this was a new show on the UPN. Had no idea it was a feature film. ---
**Author:** ![Daniel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Daniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daniel)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/39 "2003-09-23T01:03:30Z")
ugh, my post got eaten. Let’s try this again. Regarding the very, very last scene: Someone asked: wouldn’t the werewolf blood dripping into the elder kill him? I took it to mean that reviving a vampire elder with werewolf blood would cause him to be a hybrid (He’s an elder, so he’s stronger and can probably survive this sort of thing). This would change his loyalties. When Celine said “now I’ll be hunted”, I took it to mean that she would be hunted down to either be killed, or to be converted to one of the new, stronger hybrid species. ---
**Author:** ![NardoPolo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@NardoPolo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NardoPolo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2003, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847/40 "2003-09-23T01:16:00Z")
This might just sound crazy, but - Did anyone else see the four red dots that kept popping up throughout the movie? 😕 They’d only be there for about one frame - they’d flash by that quickly. And it would always be in the middle of a serious violent scene, just at the instant that a shot makes contact or someone gets their head chomped. It was weird, they were always in the same pattern: [ul]\*\* • • • •\*\*[/ul] And since they were red, they stood out cleanly on the black-and-white background. I’m sure most people missed them. But there has to be someone else out there who is reasonably observant… (or maybe on the same medication…) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/underworld-wow-freakin-wow/202847.md?page=3)