# Unemployed AGAIN **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 25, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408 "2010-01-25T19:43:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/61 "2010-01-27T23:34:18Z")
> [@The\_Blue-Sighted\_Shadow](#): > > I once worked for a firm so dysfunctional, they refused to tell their salespeople who their clients were. Because, and I quote, “Why would they need that information? It’s highly confidential.” :smack: Three guesses for the reason they gave when they started laying the sales force off. I was a field service technician for one company. You know, the guy that clients need to call or the one that has to get through security when on-site. Guess who was the one person in the company without business cards. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/62 "2010-01-28T15:44:54Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Guess who was the one person in the company without business cards. Did you try… requesting some? While stating your business reason for needing them? If so, and they turned you down, then, yeah, you have a valid gripe. But if you never asked, tough shit. Someone in my position in my company generally doesn’t have business cards. However, given that my actual role is pretty atypical, and I interface with a lot of vendors, I finally requested business cards and got them as soon as I asked. My god, did I actually just say “interface with vendors” without a hint of irony? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/63 "2010-01-28T17:05:14Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > D\ > My god, did I actually just say “interface with vendors” without a hint of irony? HaHA - your assimilation is now complete! ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/64 "2010-01-28T17:21:51Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > HaHA - your assimilation is now complete! NoooOOOOoooooOOOOo! If you’ll excuse me, I need to reach out to someone so that we can touch base on how to best impact my learnings as a result of the opportunity this issue presents. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/65 "2010-01-28T17:36:21Z")
> [@AmericanMaid](#): > > I have lost a job every year ever since 2007. Fuck!!! Ironically, 2007 was when I received my MBA. > > This latest lay-off is beyond bullshit. I was hired in July 2009 after 5 months of being unemployed. I was trained haphazardly by co-workers. > I > [@Critical1](#): > > you get fired because the only other option is to fire your manager for being such a total moron. really its managements fault here but as usual its the workers who get the blame Well, as with my esteemed colleagues below, I don’t want to coime across as a jerk, but I think Critical1, you may be swinging too far in the direction of “Blame the Man.” If someone has lost a job every year for 3 years, there’s a chance that they’re contributing to the situation. > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > How do I say this delicately, and without coming across as a jerk? As an MBA with an advanced degree in business administration, do you not have some responsibility to understand your duties (or ask until you do understand them), why you’re doing them, and the consequences of them not being done? > [@DianaG](#): > > Actually, as a grownup professional person, you have that responsibility. > > I’m trying really hard to understand what happened here. Were you somehow unclear on the nature of your job? Whatever this task is that you were asked to do “every couple of months, no big deal”, did you not, upon learning how to do the particular task and bit of reflection, see how this task fit into the bigger picture? I think you have a good idea, **AmericanMaid** , about asking about training and onboarding in your next position. You should probably also ask about how the functions of your job fit in with the company as a whole, and what the indicators of success are. How will you know if you are doing a good job? If you need to improve? I think both of the posters above made some alient points about what your responsibility as a worker is, and I hope you find a position soon that provides you with enough instruction and is something you’re interested in. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/66 "2010-01-28T23:18:10Z")
IANAL, but I do know that “fired for cause” is a term of art in employment law, and the exact definition varies some state-by-state. It doesn’t mean what you, I, or most other layman would think it does. I could tell you several anecdotes about people that really, really, really deserved to be fired and still had UI claims approved. The only two I know that were denied involved theft, and assault on the job. File for UI. Don’t tell any lies, but stick to the facts. Feeling that you deserved this is not a fact, it is an opinion. Keep such opinions to yourself. There are several ways the employer could screw up in contesting your claim. Not returning the paperwork on time is the most common. If your claim IS denied, it is worth talking to a lawyer. There may be free/cheap legal assistance available to you. ---
**Author:** ![AmericanMaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@AmericanMaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmericanMaid)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/67 "2010-01-29T01:10:45Z")
Hello all, the feedback and critiques have been appreciated! My first day of unemployment was spent interviewing at a staffing firm and calling a bunch of companies to reduce my household bills. I saved myself $300/month so far. Also, the termination was very professional and genteel plus my boss put in writing that I \*\*can \*\*claim unemployment. We also discussed some take-aways from the situation. For my part, I need to ask questions more and don’t assume that my job is to be an automaton. Also, if I notice something is wrong, I need to alert management. Tomorrow, I’m going to pick up _What Color is Your Parachute_ and do some soul searching. The 3 rounds of unemployment in 3 years have been for the same type of position (financial analyst) so it could be that I should consider a different career path. I also found a kick ass health insurance that only costs $39/month - take that COBRA! ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/68 "2010-01-29T01:41:32Z")
> [@AmericanMaid](#): > > Also, the termination was very professional and genteel plus my boss put in writing that I \*\*can \*\*claim unemployment. We also discussed some take-aways from the situation. For my part, I need to ask questions more and don’t assume that my job is to be an automaton. Also, if I notice something is wrong, I need to alert management. That’s great. When you wrote that they had suggested that you resign, I thought that was their way of trying to avoid UI. I have to say, your attitude is fantastic. You sound very motivated to learn from this and to choose a new situation carefully. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/69 "2010-01-29T02:29:30Z")
> [@AmericanMaid](#): > > Also, the termination was very professional and genteel plus my boss put in writing that I \*\*can \*\*claim unemployment. I had an agreement with a prior employer that they would not contest my unemployment claim - However, this is does not mean that you will be awarded UC by the state. Even though it’s uncontested, you must still meet THEIR guidelines. If you inform them that you were terminated instead of being laid off, it may still cause issues (YMMV - depends on how strict the state board is) I discovered this 3 years ago when I resigned from a management position due to severe conflict with Sr management in Corp. ---
**Author:** ![groo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecd19e/32.png) [@groo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/70 "2010-01-29T05:00:00Z")
> [@AmericanMaid](#): > > Hello all, the feedback and critiques have been appreciated! My first day of unemployment was spent interviewing at a staffing firm and calling a bunch of companies to reduce my household bills. I saved myself $300/month so far. > > Also, the termination was very professional and genteel plus my boss put in writing that I \*\*can \*\*claim unemployment. We also discussed some take-aways from the situation. For my part, I need to ask questions more and don’t assume that my job is to be an automaton. Also, if I notice something is wrong, I need to alert management. > > Tomorrow, I’m going to pick up _What Color is Your Parachute_ and do some soul searching. The 3 rounds of unemployment in 3 years have been for the same type of position (financial analyst) so it could be that I should consider a different career path. I also found a kick ass health insurance that only costs $39/month - take that COBRA! Yes; you’re showing a very good attitude. Whatever didn’t work at the last place, it sounds like you probably made them more comfortable with your “what can I learn from this” attitude. I’d probably have just shrieked at them for having been taken over by pods, but that’s just me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/71 "2010-01-29T13:43:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You, on the other hand, are clearly psychic. All hail **Wilbo**! It’s not a matter of being psychic. How dense are you? If the OP has his or her MBA, they should have basic understanding of business and question what the actions they are taking and the impact upon the business, especially over the course of seven months. The actions of the OP do not describe someone who has attained an MBA. MBA’s should not need hand holding, or be told what to do every day, every step of the way. ---
**Author:** ![AmericanMaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@AmericanMaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmericanMaid)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/72 "2010-01-31T15:55:09Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s not a matter of being psychic. How dense are you? If the OP has his or her MBA, they should have basic understanding of business and question what the actions they are taking and the impact upon the business, especially over the course of seven months. The actions of the OP do not describe someone who has attained an MBA. MBA’s should not need hand holding, or be told what to do every day, every step of the way. I got my MBA in operations and analysis. I have been fine in most industries I have worked in manufacturing, biotech, and retail. Healthcare was my waterloo, especially at this hospital. It was a new industry for me and a lot of the work the analysts performed was just because that’s how it’s done. I can’t count the number of analyst reports that I generated that went unread but I did it because it was part of my duties. I didn’t need hand holding to learn how to run these reports. My problem was not asking enough questions because I didn’t want to appear dumb. The other problem is that since I didn’t ask questions, I assumed two tasks are the same kind of mundane reports that go unread. But they weren’t. So, **Wilbo523** where did you get your MBA? ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/73 "2010-01-31T17:04:21Z")
I am not Wilbo, but I am an MBA and I would like to say, to you and all other MBA’s who display your complete lack of effort in applying themselves to their job: Piss off, dump the degree and stay in a job that doesn’t require you to think. Your attitude (and that of others like you) devalues the degree. If you are so intelligent, then why did you not even try to understand why the reports are run, who the audience is, etc. Why not try to streamline the process? “Look boss, if I run X report, instead of Y report, I can save the company $$” Or, I dunno, any of those things that are supposed to make the MBA a step above a BS/BA. You don’t get an MBA so someone can hold your hand and tell you to run reports. You get an MBA to move forward and take positions of responsibility. Even if that means you have to suck up a few “making me look dumb” questions, and just ask. Especially since its clearly a new industry for you. You brought this on yourself. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/74 "2010-01-31T18:22:59Z")
I think that’s pretty uncalled for. Haven’t you ever worked in a job with poor management? In my current job, I’ve had to pretty much learn everything by the seat of my pants. My co-worker who trained me was in the job a couple months before I started at most, and most of my questions she just didn’t know the answer to. My manager frankly does not want to hear about it and wants me to just fix things. However, when I bring stuff to her that I need backup on (95% of our problems require help from other departments - either to train us on how to actually use the systems we’re supposed to, or get other departments to communicate with us or acknowledge us), it gets put off. Constantly. We’ve been talking for months about meeting with other teams. It’s grinding very slowly. We do processes without knowing why because nobody can or will answer our questions. I try to say “this doesn’t make sense, why do we do this?” – my co-worker gives me a look like I have two heads and says “because X document says so”; if I go to my manager, she says we’ll work on it, but it goes on the endless list of future to-do’s. I have no doubt that I could easily be fired for screwing something up if a scapegoat was needed. We are constantly being finger-pointed for not doing this or that, because nobody told us about a change, or a process at all. Because the other departments think we’re retarded and our manager has successfully alienated most of her peers, we’re isolated, so the cycle continues. It sucks and I hate it, and I try to document everything, save all my emails, and so on, but there’s only so much I can do when my manager pretty much spends 98% of her time focusing on her other, larger team. Leaving a critical task to a new hire (MBA or no) and doing no checking for months on end is just poor management however you slice it. ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/75 "2010-01-31T19:26:32Z")
I can see your perspective, fluiddruid, and if the OP had indicated “I had asked this question time and again, and no one ever responded”, then I would feel a lot more sympathy to his/her plight. If the OP had taken notes and kept email trails, and all the things that you say you are doing, then I retract my statements. However, nothing in the OP (or in any of the OP’s other responses) suggests that what you say you are doing is the case here. You sir/madam are taking responsibility for your position and are behaving in a total appropriate and professional manner, and I truly salute you for it. (literally no sarcasm in that sentence, so please don’t read any.) It does sound as though you have incompetent management, and that you are coping with it ably. (Given your location - I am guessing Wells? I know they like fairly high departmental walls. Though Dsm has its fair share of other idiot companies.) In a later post, I see the OP has acknowledged not being blameless, and that evens it out for me. I just have a very strong dislike for people with advanced degrees to whine about not getting enough training, when taking responsibility and control is part of their job. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/76 "2010-01-31T22:19:38Z")
> [@AmericanMaid](#): > > My problem was not asking enough questions because I didn’t want to appear dumb. Well that’s dumb. A long time ago I worked for MCI. I was not in the first round of my group of hires to be promoted. When I asked why, my manager said because I asked to many questions. I asked her if I ever asked the same question twice. She admitted I did not. She was later fired for incompetence, and my next manager promoted me above the others in my “class.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/77 "2010-01-31T23:31:30Z")
> [@otternell](#): > > In a later post, I see the OP has acknowledged not being blameless, and that evens it out for me. I just have a very strong dislike for people with advanced degrees to whine about not getting enough training, when taking responsibility and control is part of their job. I gather that the OP was also a _new_ MBA, and I can certainly see someone who has _recently_ acquired an advanced degree making some errors just out of the chute. I can especially see this happening in someone who acquired an MBA after many years of working lower down in the hierarchy, as habits entrenched over years or even decades of work can be hard to break and, in fact, _so_ entrenched they may be difficult to even self-perceive. As you say, though, the fact the OP is using this set-back as an opportunity for self-reflection and self-examination does bode well for the OP. I doubt there are any of us who, when new to a profession, haven’t made what in retrospect were stupid errors. To my mind, what counts is how you deal with those mistakes (correcting one’s behavior rather than repeating mistakes, for example). ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/78 "2010-02-01T01:45:04Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Did you try… requesting some? While stating your business reason for needing them? If so, and they turned you down, then, yeah, you have a valid gripe. But if you never asked, tough shit. > > Someone in my position in my company generally doesn’t have business cards. However, given that my actual role is pretty atypical, and I interface with a lot of vendors, I finally requested business cards and got them as soon as I asked. I asked and explained why. I foolishly thought that the security guard that had to call the office specifically because I _did not_ have a business card would be telling. I was told to borrow a few cards from one of the programmers. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/79 "2010-02-01T15:54:58Z")
> [@otternell](#): > > I am not Wilbo, but I am an MBA and I would like to say, to you and all other MBA’s who display your complete lack of effort in applying themselves to their job: Piss off, dump the degree and stay in a job that doesn’t require you to think. Your attitude (and that of others like you) devalues the degree. Considering your apparent belief that you can analyze the OP’s job performance on the basis of a message board thread, it seems that the OP’s possible incompetence is probably about what should be expected of MBAs. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408/80 "2010-02-01T18:41:25Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I was told to borrow a few cards from one of the programmers. :smack: I really hope you crossed their name out and wrote yours in… in crayon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployed-again/526408.md?page=5)