# Unemployment after being forced to quit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 2, 2001, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-after-being-forced-to-quit/64125 "2001-05-02T18:42:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pluto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f08c70/32.png) [@pluto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pluto)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-after-being-forced-to-quit/64125/1 "2001-05-02T18:42:43Z")
The Situation: Mrs. Pluto has worked for the same retail clothing chain for nearly five years. She is, or has been, an exemplary employee. But those of you who’ve worked retail know that even good employees don’t get paid much. Her income has not, IMO, been commensurate with the amount of time and energy she’s put into the job, but she likes what she does. Now the bad news. The store she works in just changed managers. Mrs. P. is a “non-exempt manager”, which means she is to be paid overtime if she works overtime. Most managers are “exempt”, meaning they routinely turn in 60-hour weeks for 40 hours pay. As a manager, she also receives medical/dental benefits. So although her hourly rate is scandalously low, she is a relatively expensive employee compared to either an exempt manager or the typical non-management sales associate who scrapes by at minimum wage. So the new manager doesn’t want her on his payroll. Never mind that she’s worth every cent they pay her and then some. He wants her out and told her so. He gave her three choices: 1) take a demotion to sales associate, 2) work as a floating manager, traveling from store to store over the entire Seattle metro area without any guarantee of working at all or of knowing what her schedule will be from week to week, or 3) taking a leave of absence. This last option was later withdrawn. Mrs. Pluto felt that under the circumstances she should resign. When she told her new manager he happily told her he would waive the two-weeks notice requirement and she could resign immediately. Now (finally) for the questions: 1. Can he do this, legally? Can he effectively force her to resign without cause? 2. Is she eligible for unemployment under these circumstances? In my typical male problem-solving manner I told her she should make as much fuss as she could and force them to call a spade a spade and lay her off rather than have her quit, but she won’t do that, even after all they’ve done for (to) her. Does she have any recourse? ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-after-being-forced-to-quit/64125/2 "2001-05-02T18:56:11Z")
In some states, such as Wisconsin, being put under duress to quit will allow one to collect unemployment. I think that most states do the same, so your wife should be fine to collect. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-after-being-forced-to-quit/64125/3 "2001-05-02T19:05:41Z")
I’m no expert, and this was years ago, but maybe my experience relates. I once worked for a place, in a full-time job. They cut my hours to 24 a week, so I felt I needed to quit and get a new job. I laid all that out to Employment Security, and they gave me benefits for the month it took to get something else. By the way, this was also in Washington, which may make it relevant, but it was in '92, which may make it useless. The whole unemployment process has changed a lot since then. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-after-being-forced-to-quit/64125/4 "2001-05-02T19:23:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pluto \* > > 1. Can he do this, legally? Can he effectively force her to resign without cause? It sounds like she is being offered a choice between a demotion or being laid off. Unless she has signed a contract, most employement is “at will”. This means either party can terminate the employment at any time, for any reason. From what you described, it does not sound like she is being harassed or anything that would give her a case for bringing a lawsuit against her employer. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pluto \* > 2) Is she eligible for unemployment under these circumstances? Depends on your state. Usually, if you are laid off, you are eligable for unemployment. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pluto \* > In my typical male problem-solving manner I told her she should make as much fuss as she could and force them to call a spade a spade and lay her off rather than have her quit, but she won’t do that, even after all they’ve done for (to) her. Does she have any recourse? What she should do is accept the lower position and look for another job. At least she’ll have an income and it’s always better to find a job while you are employed. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-after-being-forced-to-quit/64125/5 "2001-05-02T20:06:25Z")
Actually, I think Mrs. Pluto should stop dealing with the manager, and start dealing with the HR department at her employer. If she is in this situation, they should be the ones to outline what her options are and what alternatives to her position exist within the company. They should know what the consequences of her leaving are, both for Mrs. Pluto and for the company. But most importantly, they should know what the manager can and cannot do in terms of firing and/or making an employee resign. You never know; he may be planning to pass this off as Mrs. Pluto’s sudden surprise decision. (Picture him with crocodile tears saying, “HR, she just said she wanted to quit, and I couldn’t stop her–she didn’t even give two weeks’ notice!”) Sure, he saves money, but it might not work to her benefit–I think that in some locations, quitting just like that, as opposed to being laid-off, either shrinks unemployment benefits, or disqualifies one from them. That’s not a situation she wants to be in, I’m sure. HR might even have the answers to your unemployment insurance questions too. And you should try your local unemployment insurance authorities for those also. Wish I could answer more clearly, but I really think it’s time to get HR involved. Make them aware of the situation if they are not already, and ask them your questions. ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2001, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-after-being-forced-to-quit/64125/6 "2001-05-02T20:39:54Z")
In my experience I would go ahead and file. Let them tell her that she isn’t eligable. I’ve been surprised a couple of times. The worst that can happen,as long as she is honest, no insult intended, is that she might have to pay it back. I’ve been there more times than I care to think about. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-after-being-forced-to-quit/64125/7 "2001-05-03T03:05:51Z")
I’m with **justwannano** and **msmith537**. It doesn’t hurt to make the attempt to file. She should go for it. As a part-time college professor, I am also an “At will” employee (shouldn’t be, after all these years, but that’s another thread) and am only hired one semester at a time. Fortunately there was a court decision made years ago that allows my colleagues and me to collect unemployment during the summer term, even when there are classes in session. The point I’m trying to make is that there are all kinds of scenarios, so Mrs. Pluto should see if she can get the unemployment. ---
**Author:** ![barker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@barker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barker)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-after-being-forced-to-quit/64125/8 "2001-05-03T03:37:29Z")
Based on what you presented, she should file. All of this is from the Washington State Employment Security Department [www.wa.gov/esd/ui/uiinfo.htm](http://www.wa.gov/esd/ui/uiinfo.htm) As to moving to a sales associate position (If a pay cut is included) > [@](#): > > 500.37 Reduction in Wages > Reduced wages or less favorable working conditions than those agreed upon at hire may justify quitting. The individual circumstances surrounding each case must be considered. > A twelve percent reduction in wages was considered substantial, but the court also considered the claimant’s new job duties and the fact that he would no longer be eligible for on-call work. On becoming a “traveling manager” > [@](#): > > 1. WORKING CONDITIONS > > 515.05 General > Working conditions generally present at the time of hire do not establish good cause to quit ( RCW 50.20.050(3)). To show good cause for leaving, the claimant must establish a substantial deterioration in working conditions or an unreasonable hardship if work were continued. > 515.12 Assignment of Work > A change in duties which materially affects the amount or type of work required may establish good cause to quit. Take a look around their site. Applicatiions are online there as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/848f3c/32.png) [@Ned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ned)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-after-being-forced-to-quit/64125/9 "2001-05-03T03:59:41Z")
This is highly dependant on where she lives and whether there are written policies which might constitute terms of an agreement. In my jurisdiction this is called a constructive dismisal. A change in terms of employment sufficient to constitute a fundamental breech of the employment contract which leaves the employee the option of accepting the change or treating it as a dismisal. In an “at will” state like california she has little recourse unless she can establish an employment contract. She needs local professional advice. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-after-being-forced-to-quit/64125/10 "2001-05-03T15:15:29Z")
In a case like this I would simply go above the manager & just keep on climbing until I get what I want. I have done this many times. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-after-being-forced-to-quit/64125/11 "2001-05-05T05:06:32Z")
First of all ALWAYS file unemployment claims. Even if you quit. (of course don’t put that down) It is estimated that half the employers don’t ever bother to fight them. Also realize that any manager can easily come up with a reason to fire you and then you WON’T get unemployment. (fired for negligence etc) Also NEVER sign anything. Don’t give your resignation. If they have nothing in writing you got a good shot. I learned my lesson the hard way. When I give two weeks I give it orally and tell them on my last day I will backdate my resignation two weeks. Thus if they let me go right away I get the unemployment. Cause once they have anything with your signature that says “I quit” you would be hard pressed to get anything. I worked for a place and we let a guy go for constantly being late (it was basically everyday and at least an hour late). Had all the documents etc. Unemployment paid him. We contested, they said. “Well he did make an attempt to show up.”