# Unemployment figures **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2003, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830 "2003-11-07T04:20:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/1 "2003-11-07T04:20:24Z")
Ah, so the new unemployment figures came out. And they were down. So that means that more people have jobs, right? Wrong! It means less people are accepting government unemployment benefits. Not everyone fired accepts those benefits. The benefits run out, so those of us who’ve been unable to get jobs for a long time don’t count. You measure the flux in the population of the job market via payroll figures, not unemployment. But surely the analysts from the TV and newspapers know this, right? I mean, they’re not going to come out, beam at the camera, and praise the news as a sign that more people are finding jobs. I mean, these are experts. They wouldn’t just grin at the camera and say this is a perfect time to buy stock, especially from their parent and sister companies, would they? Yes, yes they motherfuckingly well would! Leading to the following conversation with my friends, relatives, neighbors, and the guy I used to work with who thinks that anyone without a job must be some lazy putz. “Hey, did you see the new unemployment figures? Things are looking up!” “No, theyre not. Unemployment is solely a measure of the direct economic costs to the taxpayer of current joblessness. Payrolls measure the performance of the job market. And being a professional, the only thing that would help me is when payrolls start going up in the industrial sector, cause that’s what I work in.” “Nu uh. I heard Lou Dobbs say so. Then he told me to go buy a thousand shares of DobbCo stock. That’s not insider trading, is it?” Why, why would a supposedly merciful god either inflict these lying degenerates on the news media, or inflict people incapable of understanding and following the economy for themselves as my personal circle??? Fuck these suit-clad know-nothings! Fuck them in their stupid asses!!! Phew. Much better now. I almost forgot I spent high school as a dateless virgin, gave myself an ulcer getting through two tiers of higher education, and sent off so many resumes I can’t even remember which jobs I’ve already applied for any more. Where’d I leave that bottle of whiskey? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/2 "2003-11-07T08:17:14Z")
How come, in your little corner of the world, you are right and everybody else is wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/3 "2003-11-07T09:09:13Z")
MSNBC said that there was an upswing in new jobs created, but that it ws misleading, as the pay for the lost jobs far exceeded the pay for ‘new jobs’. This was a couple of weeks ago. ---
**Author:** ![Ryle\_Dup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Ryle\_Dup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryle_Dup)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/4 "2003-11-07T09:15:06Z")
I don’t know enough about economics but… Isn’t encouraging people to invest generally a _good_ thing? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/5 "2003-11-07T10:52:36Z")
Unless you’re encouraging them to invest is Enron and WorldCom… ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/6 "2003-11-07T10:55:56Z")
CNBC, last week, said “What recovery? We are still laying people off.” ---
**Author:** ![Wyatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Wyatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wyatt)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/7 "2003-11-07T11:30:37Z")
Yeah, the sad part of the OP’s point is, it is Advantageous for the President (any President … ok, lets say “the office of the President”…) to shut down extensions on unemployment or even shorten the term for collecting unemployment … since, the faster you can get people to drop off the ‘unemployment rolls’ the sooner “unemployment figures” go down. Talk about inverse motivation! ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/8 "2003-11-07T12:03:06Z")
Ok, so when the number of first time applicants for unemployment falls to a [34 month low](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/dowjones/20031106/bs_dowjones/200311060836000936) that’s NOT a good thing? Note for those with reading comprehension problems… that is **first time applicants** not the total number of people on unemployment. When you explain to me how tens of thousands of first time applicants have already had their insurance run out, then I’ll start being as cynical as you. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/9 "2003-11-07T13:47:16Z")
It may well be that new hires are dropping because the massive layouts that have characterized business under the Bush administration have left most companies lean, and that those companies that are likely to fail in times of mild economic stress, have failed. This does not mean that things will get better though, as bosses have the ability to whip their workers to work harder now because their workers KNOW they can’t find jobs elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/10 "2003-11-07T16:46:25Z")
Unemployment is calculated based on a survey of households, not of people collecting unemployment checks. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/11 "2003-11-07T17:21:40Z")
An interesting point brought up on a local radio show this morning that this info collected from surveys might not take into account the fact that in this city alone almost **10,000** people got jobs this month as replacements for striking workers. Probably 9,990 of them are now without jobs again (the St. Louis strike ended). There have been, of course, huge strikes like this in other places last month as well. ---
**Author:** ![hlanelee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@hlanelee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hlanelee)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/12 "2003-11-07T21:52:41Z")
I have been unemployed and actively seeking employment since March. From where I sit, things are not looking up. ---
**Author:** ![hlanelee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@hlanelee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hlanelee)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/13 "2003-11-07T21:55:56Z")
**Fuck your statistics, I can’t eat them!** ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/14 "2003-11-07T23:10:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Unemployment is calculated based on a survey of households, not of people collecting unemployment checks. The official figures from the Department of Labor are based on 1) How many people are receiving unemployment checks. They also have stats on first time applicants. The OP is right that these figures do not reflect those who have been unemployed so long that they have run out of unemployment benefits. There may be polls around that survey households. They may even be more accurate than the Department of Labor’s statistics. Imagine a worse case scenario. Everyone in the U.S. is out of work and has been for five years. A few people volunteer to work at at what used to be the Department of Labor to gather statistics on unemployment. No one is receiving an unemployment check. Therefore, no one is unemployed according to their method of determining the unemployed. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/15 "2003-11-07T23:18:13Z")
Shady math. Kinda how they figure out popularity for movies. Back in the 80’s, a highly popular movie could’ve made 10 million at the box office. Today a movie can open up a 100 million. That doesn’t mean that movies today are better. It means that ticket prices today are $8+ dollars compared to $2 in the 80’s. How they should do it is count how many Asses In Seats (AIS) there are. AIS figures would be a factual figure about the success of a movie, not $$$ amounts. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/16 "2003-11-08T08:42:30Z")
…not that any of this will stop the Bushies from tooting the tax-cut horn and sanctifying George as the Second Coming of Jeebus. :rolleyes: The unemployment numbers are _very_ shady, and should be taken with a huge grain of salt. Don’t expect our feckless lapd^H^H^H^Hwatchdog media to explain this to the public, though. ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/17 "2003-11-08T09:27:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > [BThe unemployment numbers are _very_ shady, and should be taken with a huge grain of salt. Don’t expect our feckless lapd^H^H^H^Hwatchdog media to explain this to the public, though. \*\* Of course the liberal media will not talk about it. It was the Clinton administration that changed the formula to calculate the rate. In hindsight, it now seems that a lot of the Clinton era boom was due to shady accounting. ---
**Author:** ![Computer\_Guru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Computer\_Guru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Computer_Guru)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/18 "2003-11-08T15:41:36Z")
I’m tired of looking for jobs also. They said that 300K jobs have been added in the last three months, but I’m sure that the same number lost their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/19 "2003-11-08T16:29:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*…not that any of this will stop the Bushies from tooting the tax-cut horn and sanctifying George as the Second Coming of Jeebus. :rolleyes: > > The unemployment numbers are _very_ shady, and should be taken with a huge grain of salt. Don’t expect our feckless lapd^H^H^H^Hwatchdog media to explain this to the public, though. \*\* BLS reports unemployment on the rise, Idiot Left hisses and shrieks, citing the loss of jobs as proof of GW’s evilness. BLS reports unemployment is on the decline. Idiot Left hisses and shrieks, babbling about the BLS not being a trustworthy source for such figures. ---
**Author:** ![Computer\_Guru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Computer\_Guru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Computer_Guru)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830/20 "2003-11-08T16:38:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*BLS reports unemployment on the rise, Idiot Left hisses and shrieks, citing the loss of jobs as proof of GW’s evilness. > > BLS reports unemployment is on the decline. Idiot Left hisses and shrieks, babbling about the BLS not being a trustworthy source for such figures. \*\* Unemployment figures are always skewed, but this organization isn’t doing the skewing. It’s just the fact that people are losing unemployment benefits and a bunch of people are just taking cheap labor jobs just to be able to survive (if even able to). I read in the newspaper last week about more U.S. families having to sacrifice food just to pay thier bills. That’s rediculous (SP?). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unemployment-figures/211830.md?page=2)