Here is a link to the National Motorists blog that has several articles about the manipulation of yellow traffic light timing.
http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/yellow-lights
Among the interesting studies and articles, you might find this one informative about six cities that were caught shortening the yellow light timing for profit.
http://blog.motorists.org/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/
And those standards are often not met. I don’t think it’s out of the question to conclude that there could be a profit motive.
6 Cities That Were Caught Shortening Yellow Light Times For Profit
The title of the article may be misleading, since in many of the cases there isn’t enough evidence in the article to suggest the yellow lights were short for profit in all of the cases, but it sure as hell looks more than suspicious.
ETA: Damn! A minute too late.
Wow Dallas thanks!
Then you haven’t been reading the answers given on this thread. There are many legitimate reasons why they times could be different, all posted upthread.
In Virginia, the law says:
So there you go. In my state, you only have to stop if it’s not safe to keep going. That’s helpful. :rolleyes:
But if you Google “yellow light timing”, you’ll get a bunch of results that pertain to the question at hand. Cities can and do shorten or lengthen yellow lights.
Yes. I. Have.
I understand that the lights themselves can vary. However, the way the system “works” is that law enforcement can gorge on victims who are unfamiliar with a certain light’s operation. Despite all the math and science it boils down to a light that allows a city to reap rewards either through purposeful manipulation, or convienent side effects of a “complex” “highly confusing” system that keeps are roadways “safe” and “moving freely”.
I don’t understand how shortening the yellow-red interval can improve traffic flow. Its about how long the light is green or red for a particular road, not how long it takes for a light to change from yellow to red. Yellow to red interval is more about how much money a city brings in IMO.
In California red light cameras only trigger if you enter an intersection on the red, and not if the light turns red while you are in the intersection - and certainly not if you enter on a yellow.
I believe that if you show a light is not timed according to standards you can beat a ticket. You’d have to go there and study it though.
Wait - conditions were bad and you were driving fast enough to not be able to stop in the time of the yellow light, even reduced? When I drove in snow I sure as hell started to stop the moment I saw that light turn yellow (unless some clown was on my tail.) It seems you were driving too fast for conditions. If it was a clear, dry, day I’d have a lot more sympathy.
Yellow is not red. When the light turns yellow, you should immediately assess whether you can safely come to a stop. If yes, then stop. If no, then proceed. It’s no more complicated than that. The duration of the light has nothing to do with your decision directly – it is supposed to be set so that someone making an honest assessment that they cannot stop will be through the intersection before cross traffic is given a green.
A yellow specifically shouldn’t induce the question that it does for most people: “Can I make it through the intersection before it turns red?” The question is supposed to be “Can I safely stop before I reach the line?” Note that the latter question doesn’t depend on the yellow’s duration.
Unless someone was on your tail, you’d start to stop the moment you saw light turn yellow regardless of at what point at or near the intersection you were? That’s not what you’re supposed to do, especially in snowy conditions. I don’t see how you concluded that ManiacMan was going too fast for conditions because he went through a yellow light.
This is basically the correct way to look at it for the driver. The details of how it is enforced differ with jurisdictions. Some may ticket if you haven’t cleared the intersection by the red light, probably on the grounds that you either tried to squeeze through the yellow light, or weren’t paying enough attention and didn’t see it turn yellow when you could have stopped. The OP’s complaint has some weight in such jurisdictions.
Something of a hijack - there’s another circumstance where one may be in the middle of an intersection under the red light: pulling out into the intersection before backed up traffic has cleared on the other side. You may have even entered on the green. Jurisdictions differ on how to ticket for “blocking the box”, too. Several years ago, San Francisco started handing out tickets for this, and they were all thrown out by the courts. It was just rude, not illegal.
I was keeping up with the flow of traffic. The cop himself said that he had clocked over 100 people in the past hour at 30-31 mph. Its more like I was driving too fast for a light that has a 3.5s yellow-red interval.
Actually, the entire light cycle affects traffic flow. In particular the speed and density of traffic may dictate how long a yellow light should stay illuminated. You don’t cars stopping too soon - that would reduce the flow through the intersection. But you don’t want too many cars trying to race the red, and end up with accidents and/or gridlock. Differing traffic patterns at different times of day may make for different optimal timings. Also the traffic makeup (cars vs big trucks) may dictate how long you need to clear the intersection. At certain times of day they may expect more trucks and need to keep the yellow for longer to allow them to make it all the way through.
Either way, there’s little indication other than the fact that you were pulled over that the city is doing this for revenue purposes. If you want real answers you should talk to your city’s highway department and ask them about the intersection in question.
According to what was posted upthread, 3.5 seconds is standard for a 35 mph road. Just because everyone else was driving too fast for conditions, doesn’t somehow make the standard unethical.
But maybe I’m a little biased, having been almost killed by someone who, eh, was driving too fast for a light with a 3.5s yellow-red interval.
Or were behind a vehicle in an ajacent lane and that vehicle stopped but you didn’t.
That’s right. In short, a difference in signal light duration shouldn’t make any difference at all in how you drive.
If the police are passing out tickets 10x more a day when the light is timed to 3.5s I would say that would be plenty enough indication. I haven’t camped out to observe this intersection, but then I don’t need to. The police are always there when the light is “fast” and they are not when it is “slow”. Usually, they are further south getting people for speeding. They go to where the easy pickings are to be had.
Perhaps the light being “fast” and the police presence are both there for the same reason - increased accidents during that time of day. Correlation does not equal causation.
I disagree. 35mph is approx. 51 feet per sec. If I am about 150 feet away and that light turns yellow I have to take in a bunch of factors before making my decision to stop.
Is someone tailgetting me? Is the road dry? Wet? Slipppery? Those are just what comes to to top of my head. Subtract an indivuals reaction time which can be .5s to .75s and the amount of time u have to react and make a decision to stop safely is too short.
And that’s my problem. People need more time than 3-3.5 seconds and the cops know this and they profit.
