# Unexpected Different Attitudes In Older Works **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 7, 2019, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178 "2019-06-07T19:16:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/41 "2019-06-10T13:49:09Z")
I think hitch-hiking was not only perceived as more dangerous, it was more dangerous - the crime rate in the US skyrocketed during the 60s and 70s. > [@Pantastic](#): > > One example from EE Doc Smith’s Lensman books: > There’s a scene where the main character Kim is in deep cover to infiltrate a criminal operation. He goes off on a day trip to have lunch and fish while making a drop for the criminals. As part of his day trip, he brings a packaged lunch in box, then when he’s done eating collects the trash into the box and drops it into the late. While he will comment when he does things that are out of character to maintain cover, dropping trash into the nice lake you’re fishing doesn’t even warrant a mention, it’s treated as the perfectly normal thing to do. Same series - they want to find all the greatest scientists for a conference, and there is a huge library they need to search that takes up a whole planet. They do the search with a card reader. 🙂 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/42 "2019-06-10T14:44:41Z")
I’ve been watching a few of the old _Our Gang_ comedies and was struck by the fact that the kids – who were well under ten years old – were allowed to play unsupervised. The youngest ones did hang out with their older siblings, but you had six-year-olds who spent the day getting into trouble without an adult around until one showed up to deal with the mess they made. That was the way it was in the 50s and early 60s: kids just hung out together without adults. But nowadays, you can’t leave a child that young without supervision, and it could be construed as child neglect. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/43 "2019-06-10T14:45:15Z")
What about bullying? Way back when, it was just a normal part of growing up? Stephen King’s Carrie is a good example. I think King probably suffered some serious bullying in his school days, and wished he had the powers needed to get revenge. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/44 "2019-06-10T14:51:58Z")
That’s [card readers] a change in technology, though, not one of attitudes. I suppose it’d have been to Smith’s credit if he had been able to predict electronic databases, but one can hardly hold it against him that he didn’t. Most science fiction writers don’t fare any better, and even the few who do, it’s mostly just by fluke. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/45 "2019-06-10T15:21:06Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > Not quite the same thing but in the mid-90’s live action Disney Jungle Book movie Mogwai kicks a character over a cliff and kills him, granted it was in self-defence but I was still surprised. I haven’t seen the movie, so maybe it involves a _Gremlins_ crossover I’m unware of, but I think you mean Mowgli. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/46 "2019-06-10T15:28:53Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > Well, I’ll provide one, because it’s so eye-popping: the Agatha Christie novel which was actually _entitled_ [Ten Little N](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_Then_There_Were_None). > > American publishers, possibly showing a little more sensitivity, generally used the title “And Then There Were None” (now universal, I think); apart from one which went for the anodyne (not!) Ten Little Indians. God help us. Even worse, both Ten Little N-word and Ten Little Indians are references to children’s rhymes originating in the 19th century and being popular way after Christie’s book was published. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/47 "2019-06-10T15:38:58Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Common solutions to this writers’ problem include lost phones, stolen phones, phones hurled into lakes or stomped on by the evil guy, lack of reception in a remote area, and so on. All of which are potentially plausible circumstances, but this is something mystery novel writers never used to have to worry about. I collect vintage paperbacks, so I’ve been reading a lot of 30s and 40s mysteries lately. The depiction of the police investigation varies from fairly good crime scene work to the most casual perusal of the dead body. What I find most hilarious, though, occurs in the familiar plot of a bunch of unrelated people staying in a house when one of them is found dead. The police - invariably - order everyone to stay in the house. Of course - invariably - a second, and sometimes third, person is then murdered because they knew too much, while the murderer gets to gleefully destroy evidence and alter crime scenes at will. Didn’t the police ever read mysteries in those days? Everybody else did. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > As a person who hitchhiked in the 1970’s: this was pretty much true, but already becoming somewhat less so than it had been. > Most hippies were taking marijuana and/or psychedelics; use of hard drugs was IME relatively rare. And in any case they weren’t a new thing – most of them had been legal over the counter earlier in the century, and some of what we think of as hard drugs now still were; codeine cough syrup for instance. The Haight-Ashbury scene was destroyed by hard drugs by 1967. (The “Death of Hippie” parade took place in October.) Hard drugs spread though the rock world before 1970 and to their audiences by 1975. In the same way, hard drugs, cocaine primarily, became the drug of choice for partiers in the 1970s. That decade was also the decade for speed, with amphetamine abuse skyrocketing. Speed was abused by truck drivers to a frightening degree. Remember the War of Drugs? Nixon started it in 1971. He wasn’t just going after pot. I’m glad you had good experiences. I’m not sure that you can say they were typical. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/48 "2019-06-10T18:16:21Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Have you ever read an unexpurgated, unbowdlerized version of _Arabian Nights_? > > In English-speaking countries, we tend to have a romanticized view of the Bedouin, derived from Hollywood movies starring Rudolph Valentino or Peter O’Toole. The _1001 Nights_ stories were written by urban-dwelling Arabs. They viewed the Bedouin the way we view the rednecks in _Deliverance_. Uneducated, uncouth, and utterly untrustworthy. > > Sexual mores are also peculiar. The medieval Muslims were not nearly as prudish as their modern descendants. Lots of things were forbidden, but there were lots of loopholes. > > Premarital sex was forbidden. (But if, by the end of the story, you got her father’s permission to marry her, all would be forgiven.) > > Extramarital sex was forbidden. (But if, by the end of the story, her husband divorced her, died of natural causes, or was executed by the king, all would be forgiven.) > > It was forbidden to have sex with another man’s slave. (But, if he was a good friend, he would give her to you when he noticed your interest. :eek: [And, if you were a good friend, you would give her back when you were finished. :eek: :eek: :eek:]) > > Attitudes toward homosexuality depended mostly on how good-looking the homosexuals were. If and old person, or an ugly person, or a person of low social status lusted after you, that was a calamity. If someone was young, good-looking, rich, and professed their love for you, nobody seemed to mind. The gay sex always took place offstage, but the hints about it were pretty broad. In Burton’s version princes and princesses are constantly being thrown together and having sex after awhile. My favorite example in _Arabian Nights_ is a story where the hero converts a serial killer giant to Islam and then casually mentions him killing the infidels because now that he’s a Muslim that’s perfectly acceptable. Edgar Rice Burroughs Mars and Pellucidar stories feature casual female nudity. There’s a scene in _Bleak House_ where two of the women are talking about somebody and casually mention that her name is a “servant’s name”. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/49 "2019-06-10T18:21:44Z")
> [@naita](#): > > I haven’t seen the movie, so maybe it involves a _Gremlins_ crossover I’m unware of, but I think you mean Mowgli. 😉 I am indeed thinking of Mowgli, you’ve probably just corrected a two decade long confusion regarding names. Though featuring a Mogwai in the background of a scene in a Jungle book movie could be a funny easter egg. Also, I’ve just read a webpage about the character gizmo and it suggests Mogwai’s are extraterrestrial in origin, I don’t think that was ever mentioned or implied in the movies? Edited to add that on further reading apparently they were supposed to be aliens, wow I don’t think that improves things or makes a better story to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/50 "2019-06-10T18:25:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think hitch-hiking was not only perceived as more dangerous, it was more dangerous - the crime rate in the US skyrocketed during the 60s and 70s. During which time hitchhiking was pretty common. After that the crime rate went back down again, and everybody starting thinking hitchhiking was too dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/51 "2019-06-10T18:30:24Z")
After hearing all the hype about _The Great God Pan_ I expected it to be somewhat risque but after reading it and finding it boring. I can’t help wondering if they were reacting to the weirdly hentai style illustrations. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/52 "2019-06-10T19:35:22Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Judging from movies, radio and from real-life accounts, hitchhiking was incredibly common in the 1970s and before - people could count on being able to travel by hitching and people passing by felt a social obligation to pick people up along the side of the road. I hitchhiked to work almost every day in the 70s. It was so common, that you had a choice of rides: “Guess I’ll put my thumb down til this old pickup goes by, there’s a sportier car coming along.” If I ever needed a ride right away, I had a _“Help! Going To Be Late For Work”_ sign When I did drive, I often picked up four people, my car’s max occupancy. If no one picked you up, you could always wait for that one hippie dude who drove a VW bus… or the Ol’ Prospector, who had a guest book on his dashboard. It all ended abruptly in the early 80s. I remember thanking a woman who picked me up with the line “I’m going to write a book: _Hitchin’ in The Reagan Years._ NO ONE is stopping any more… so thank you!” ---
**Author:** ![TimfromNapa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/53 "2019-06-10T20:07:25Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > In one 1930s cartoon Popeye, mistakenly believing that Swee’Pea has been naughty, prepares to administer discipline by picking up a stout piece of wood. In fairness to Popeye’s writers, he never gets around to using it and feels great remorse for even thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![TimfromNapa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/54 "2019-06-10T20:10:07Z")
In the classic “comedy” “Refer Madness”, the young men and women who are about to be corrupted by the scourge, marijuana all casually puff on cigarettes as though it is completely natural and wholesome. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/55 "2019-06-10T21:13:48Z")
Eh, I hitchhiked a bit in the past decade or so, once I realized that it was a much more reliable way of getting to and from the airport than the local cab company. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/56 "2019-06-11T01:35:05Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > After hearing all the hype about _The Great God Pan_ I expected it to be somewhat risque but after reading it and finding it boring. I can’t help wondering if they were reacting to the weirdly hentai style illustrations. Reading Arthur Machen for the juicy parts is bound to lead to disappointment. Don’t let it dissuade you from “The White People,” though, which totally lives up to its hype. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/57 "2019-06-11T01:43:18Z")
With “Pan,” you want to get more of a peek at this wild depravity the soulless woman is wreaking all over London. In “White People,” the subtle approach is much more effective. And you’re seeing all the spooky stuff through the eyes of an 11-year-old girl. Plus, it’s another example of a young child rambling through desolate woods and hills far afield, while her parents and the servants stay at home not giving a damn where she is. ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/58 "2019-06-11T06:26:08Z")
I’m reading a 1954 book by Enid Blyton, one of the most prolific children’s authors of the mid 1900s. Twins, seven years old, are being sent unaccompanied on a 5 hour train trip. "“I’ll tell the guard to come and have a look at you now and then,” [mother] said. “You’ll be quite all right, because you don’t have to change anywhere. Eat your sandwiches when you see a clock on some station pointing to half-past twelve.” ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/59 "2019-06-11T07:09:19Z")
> [@gkster](#): > > I’m reading a 1954 book by Enid Blyton, one of the most prolific children’s authors of the mid 1900s. > Twins, seven years old, are being sent unaccompanied on a 5 hour train trip. > > "“I’ll tell the guard to come and have a look at you now and then,” [mother] said. “You’ll be quite all right, because you don’t have to change anywhere. Eat your sandwiches when you see a clock on some station pointing to half-past twelve.” In the “real life, not fiction” section - a couple of years ago my daughter’s school play was based around the story of a 9-year-old kid called [Lennie Gwyther](https://www.smh.com.au/national/the-nineyearold-who-rode-a-pony-1000km-to-sydney-20150121-12v3kq.html) who rode to Sydney to see the opening of the Harbour Bridge in 1932. From 1000km away. By himself. It was a reward for having done all the plowing that season, when his dad was laid up with a broken leg. People were tougher, back when. Though the fact that he got famous for it is an indication that, even for the 30s, that feat was pretty out there. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178/60 "2019-06-11T10:01:06Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Judging from movies, radio and from real-life accounts, hitchhiking was incredibly common in the 1970s and before - people could count on being able to travel by hitching and people passing by felt a social obligation to pick people up along the side of the road. Still is common in much of Europe. What’s incredible to me is how much it freaks out people from non-rural areas. One of the times I picked someone up as I was going home, it was two teenaged girls attending a summer camp nearby. The blonde one had been there before and was used to local customs, her brunette friend was a newbie from Mallorca (where I definitely wouldn’t want to be picked up by strangers). By the time I dropped them off exactly where they were going (which only took me out of the way by about ten minutes total, oh noes, and I didn’t have to be anywhere at a specific time anyway), the blonde was grinning from ear to ear about having her predictions on the complete non-dire-ness of hitchhiking fulfilled and the brunette was oh-wowing for all that she was worth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-different-attitudes-in-older-works/835178.md?page=4)