# Unexpected inversions of symmetry in fiction \[spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 9, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655 "2011-12-09T19:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hoenikker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoenikker/32/7296_2.png) [@hoenikker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoenikker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/1 "2011-12-09T19:32:19Z")
[a very fun thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=634170) (at least for me) was just closed: I decided to start another one, on basically the same topic, but more “sanely”. Here goes: What are you favorite **unexpected** inversions of symmetry in fiction? For an example of what I mean, think Bruce Willis discovering he’s really a ghost rather than a human, basically breaking the symmetry between alive and dead. Also, think about discovering that Brendan Fraser’s character in the Quiet American is a CIA agent. I really enjoy it when things are not what they appear, and become inverted as quickly as possible. And I hope others do too, so can give more examples of this. I even hope we can do this for awhile, maybe even until June 😛 For more subtle reversals of symmetry, please watch this scene in Contact with Jodie Foster: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZD0_5HFMPIg/hqdefault.jpg "Contact , tricky mirror scene") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD0_5HFMPIg) Someone can probably come along with a tvtropes link, but hopefully we can discuss these interesting reversals here and find a stand alone complex together. ---
**Author:** ![hoenikker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoenikker/32/7296_2.png) [@hoenikker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoenikker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/2 "2011-12-09T19:41:05Z")
Oh right, I forgot I already mentioned one in the other thread (I think) Consider the ending of I Am Legend (the book). The protagonist basically discovers that HE’s the vampire, and everyone else is human. I’m sure someone who has read the story can describe it better. Anyway, that’s the kind of thing I’m looking for. Hopefully I’ve helped somebody formulate a concept that they always found interesting but never really knew how to ask for? It’s basically “the M. Night Shamalaya” thing. ---
**Author:** ![hoenikker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoenikker/32/7296_2.png) [@hoenikker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoenikker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/3 "2011-12-09T19:42:27Z")
Sorry to triple-OP, but there’s another tricky mirror inversion involving Jena Malone (maybe that’s her thing :p) [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Lvg466bU0) ---
**Author:** ![hoenikker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoenikker/32/7296_2.png) [@hoenikker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoenikker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/4 "2011-12-09T19:54:18Z")
Sorry again, but remember what the Architect said in one of the Matrix sequels? It was hard to understand, but basically “the Matrix” was designed for human benefit, at least at first. it wasn’t to enslave us, it was to save us, but they just couldn’t get it right without adding the right imperfections. The job of “Neo” was to start the game over again, more “perfectly” by adding the “right imperfections” Of course, Smith was playing his own game too, so it wasn’t quite like that, but I think we all understood what was really going on in those sequels anyway. Jesus Christ, right? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/5 "2011-12-09T20:12:35Z")
I’m not sure if this is what you’re referring to, but Patrick Stewart (of Picard fame) starred in a production of _Othello_, where all the other roles were played by black actors. ---
**Author:** ![hoenikker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoenikker/32/7296_2.png) [@hoenikker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoenikker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/6 "2011-12-09T20:17:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m not sure if this is what you’re referring to, but Patrick Stewart (of Picard fame) starred in a production of _Othello_, where all the other roles were played by black actors. Wow that’s interesting. Unexpected on a whole new level 😛 Thanks **Chronos**! By the way, I hope you can read the other thread I posted, if only out of curiosity. It might make sense to you, it might not, but if it does, I’ll return the favor someday. I promise! ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/7 "2011-12-09T22:46:01Z")
Well, there was this guy who got involved in a long thread on a message board, and it turned out he was having a conversation almost entirely with himself all along. ---
**Author:** ![Helena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@Helena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/8 "2011-12-09T22:49:06Z")
I am sort-of-tangentially reminded of Philip K. Dick’s essay, [How to Build a Universe That Doesn’t Fall Apart Two Days Later](http://deoxy.org/pkd_how2build.htm). ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/9 "2011-12-09T23:04:16Z")
**hoenikker** , if you haven’t seen it, I highly, highly recommend the movie **The Nemesis Game**. I have a feeling you will really like it. Not only does it have a nice inversion scene as mentioned here, but it also touches on some of the themes in the other thread. Mild spoiler, but avoid if you want the full experience of the movie: Ultimately the question is whether people really know what’s going on or not. Or maybe there’s a game that everyone but you is aware of. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/10 "2011-12-09T23:08:05Z")
How are these things inversions of symmetry? They seem more like twists or unexpected endings. Would the ending of the Twilight Zone episode Eye of the Beholder count as “inversion of symmetry” in your opinion? It’s the one with a bandaged woman waiting to see if her plastic surgery has worked. She’s in a world where ugly people are given surgery to look acceptable and shunned if medicine can’t help them conform. The twist is that the woman is gorgeous by our standards but the rest of the world is ugly/have weird pig faces. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/11 "2011-12-09T23:14:50Z")
For what it’s worth, your phrase “unexpected inversions of symmetry” doesn’t come anywhere close to describing what you’re talking about. You have a strange idea of what the term “symmetry” means. What you’re asking about are plot twists in fiction that completely turn around your understanding of what’s going on in the story. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/12 "2011-12-09T23:19:08Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > How are these things inversions of symmetry? They seem more like twists or unexpected endings. > > Would the ending of the Twilight Zone episode Eye of the Beholder count as “inversion of symmetry” in your opinion? > > It’s the one with a bandaged woman waiting to see if her plastic surgery has worked. She’s in a world where ugly people are given surgery to look acceptable and shunned if medicine can’t help them conform. The twist is that the woman is gorgeous by our standards but the rest of the world is ugly/have weird pig faces. Kind of nit-pick… but that’s actually toward the beginning of the episode. A lot happens after that. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/13 "2011-12-09T23:28:51Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Kind of nit-pick… but that’s actually toward the beginning of the episode. A lot happens after that. No, it’s not. It’s definitely towards the end. There’s… a bit where the woman runs away and then another hot by our standards guy shows up and explains how she’ll be going to a colony for uglies, but that only takes about five or six minutes. Most of the episode is the woman waiting to have the bandages removed and the big reveal definitely doesn’t happen in the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/14 "2011-12-10T00:12:54Z")
Pozzo and Lucky, from **Waiting for Godot** , swapping statuses of “master” and “servant” with no explanation. Life’s just like that sometimes. Another status reversal that always stood out to me, from **Buffy the Vampire Slayer** : After jumping through hoops for the Council of Watchers for the better part of an episode to prove that she’s worthy of being the Slayer, Buffy announces that they work for her and need to get with the program immediately, and that even her most ineffectual comrade has more field experience fighting vampires than the lot of them put together. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/15 "2011-12-10T00:58:30Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Pozzo and Lucky, from **Waiting for Godot** , swapping statuses of “master” and “servant” with no explanation. Life’s just like that sometimes. See also the title characters in [Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosencrantz_and_Guildenstern_Are_Dead). ---
**Author:** ![hoenikker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoenikker/32/7296_2.png) [@hoenikker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoenikker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/16 "2011-12-10T01:35:17Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Well, there was this guy who got involved in a long thread on a message board, and it turned out he was having a conversation almost entirely with himself all along. Right, and it just turned out to be a recursive joke. Very impressive job. You can thank Kurt Vonnegut and ice-nine for that one. ---
**Author:** ![hoenikker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoenikker/32/7296_2.png) [@hoenikker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoenikker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/17 "2011-12-10T01:36:20Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > For what it’s worth, your phrase “unexpected inversions of symmetry” doesn’t come anywhere close to describing what you’re talking about. You have a strange idea of what the term “symmetry” means. What you’re asking about are plot twists in fiction that completely turn around your understanding of what’s going on in the story. So “your perception of what is going on” is not an axis of symmetry? It’s poetic, ok? Remember the line from Contact? “They should have sent a poet?” What a reversal. A scientist wanting to swap places with a poet. ---
**Author:** ![hoenikker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoenikker/32/7296_2.png) [@hoenikker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoenikker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/18 "2011-12-10T01:38:23Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > For what it’s worth, your phrase “unexpected inversions of symmetry” doesn’t come anywhere close to describing what you’re talking about. You have a strange idea of what the term “symmetry” means. What you’re asking about are plot twists in fiction that completely turn around your understanding of what’s going on in the story. Are you the observer or the observed? Have you seen the play Copenhagen? It’s a fictional account of the development of quantum mechanics, and it’s got plenty of reversals. Just subtle ones. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/19 "2011-12-10T01:51:46Z")
> [@hoenikker](#): > > So “your perception of what is going on” is not an axis of symmetry? Not unless they redefined the word “symmetry” when I was in the loo… ---
**Author:** ![hoenikker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoenikker/32/7296_2.png) [@hoenikker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoenikker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655/20 "2011-12-10T01:57:20Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Not unless they redefined the word “symmetry” when I was in the loo… Think quantum-mechanically! Unless you want to think 4th dimensionally, and you’re a fan of Back of the Future. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-inversions-of-symmetry-in-fiction-spoilers/605655.md?page=2)