# Unexpected unfairness in movies (probable spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 13, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031 "2008-12-13T18:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![in\_hiding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c5a1d2/32.png) [@in\_hiding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/in_hiding)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/61 "2008-12-15T01:49:56Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > _Serenity_: > > “I’m a leaf on the wind… watch how I–” No, that’s unexpected stupidness. The Shepard I can understand, that was a real, somewhat usefull scene, but this… It Never Happened™. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/62 "2008-12-15T02:08:39Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Snape’s behavior towards Draco is likely more complicated than it seems. Having gone through the entire series, I see it as two-fold; 1. They’re in his house and he wants his own house to succeed and win. This isn’t really explicitly spelled out anywhere, but it IS natural. 2. He’s playing the double-agent/triple-agent all along, being Dumbledore’s man in repentance and shame for his part in Lily’s death. The greatest part of this, through the entire series, is to remain in the good graces of the Death Eaters and appear to remain loyal to Voldemort, while appearing to be THEIR agent in Dumbledore’s midst. So of course he has to remain close to the Malfoy family, the most powerful of the (pre-return of Voldemort) “former” Death Eaters. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/63 "2008-12-15T02:20:44Z")
I always assumed that Snape was secretly in love with Lily Potter but hated James, which is why he was so conflicted about Harry. Close? I haven’t gotten that far in the books yet, so I have no idea, but I get that vibe… ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/64 "2008-12-15T02:23:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Because it’s ridiculous, that’s why. > > Can I say that everybody dies at the end of _Hamlet_? Can I say that Odysseus makes it back home and kill the Penelope’s suitors? > > At certain point, if you haven’t seen something, you give up the right to expect people to tiptoe around on eggshells about spoilers. > > By the way, the thread title already has a spoiler warning. Well, given that probably nobody in this thread can read Greek, it would be helpful for you to spoilerbox the Odyssey ending. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/65 "2008-12-15T02:58:25Z")
I know when I see the title of a movie I haven’t seen, I simply scroll past the post. Why can’t everyone do this? ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/66 "2008-12-15T03:03:41Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I know when I see the title of a movie I haven’t seen, I simply scroll past the post. Why can’t everyone do this? Because it’s easier to read the post and then complain about it. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/67 "2008-12-15T03:05:25Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I know when I see the title of a movie I haven’t seen, I simply scroll past the post. Why can’t everyone do this? Because when someone says “everyone dies at the end of Hamlet,” by the time you see the name of the movie it is too late. What I really hate is when there is a spoiler with no movie name out side the box. How am I supposed to know if I want to read the spoiler or not? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/68 "2008-12-15T03:05:47Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > I always assumed that Snape was secretly in love with Lily Potter but hated James, which is why he was so conflicted about Harry. Close? I haven’t gotten that far in the books yet, so I have no idea, but I get that vibe… All is revealed towards the end of the last book, but you’ve pretty much got it. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/69 "2008-12-15T04:56:13Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > What I really hate is when there is a spoiler with no movie name out side the box. How am I supposed to know if I want to read the spoiler or not? The butler did it. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/70 "2008-12-15T05:11:22Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > It’s a 14 year old movie. Isn’t there a statute of limitations on these things? Quite the opposite; now that the movie is that old, there are millions of people coming into adulthood who didn’t see it when it was new and popular, have heard that it’s great, and haven’t yet had a chance to check it out. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Because it’s ridiculous, that’s why. Really? It’s “ridiculous” to take just a second to do something nice for someone that won’t cost you anything? Are you saying that you oppose random acts of kindness on principle? > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > By the way, the thread title already has a spoiler warning. If my request came across as legalistic, I sincerely apologize for the implication. It was meant as a plea for the tiniest ounce of compassion that wouldn’t even cost you anything. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/71 "2008-12-15T05:43:11Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > I would not equate “goes out of his way not to kill them” and “goes out of his way to help them.” That’s just me, and we can agree to disagree on that. 🙂 Jules went out of his way to calm Vincent, who was ready to go off like a friggen bomb when he came out of the bathroom, and he clearly meant to impart a life lesson with his “You are the weak and I am the shepherd (SP?)” speech. He was purposely leaving them alive with the intention of teaching them something and causing a little bit of good in the world. It’s the beginning of Jules’s redemption, which is the theme of the whole movie. Vincent rejects redemption, and is thus killed. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/72 "2008-12-15T06:55:20Z")
> [@in\_hiding](#): > > No, that’s unexpected stupidness. The Shepard I can understand, that was a real, somewhat usefull scene, > but this… > > It Never Happened™. As the Captain said, they were fighting a war. Soldiers die in wars, often at random. Did you really think they’d come out of it with no casualties? Besides, the death in question \*had \*a purpose - it showed us that any character could die at any time, which really ratcheted up the tension for the end of the film. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/73 "2008-12-15T18:11:39Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Thanks for spoilering. I really have not seen this movie, although I’ve heard lots of references to it. I always mean to see it, but somehow never get around to it. I even rented it once and didn’t watch it. I know. . . weird. 🙂 > > As to unfairness, I always thought it was pretty unfair that the cop had to kill himself in _Les Miserable_ . While he might have been overzealous in chasing the main character, it was still his job. Except that, in Les Miz: Javert chose to kill himself. No one forced it upon him. How is that unfair? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/74 "2008-12-15T18:15:28Z")
> [@Diane](#): > > The only movie that really pissed me off by how unfair the ending was, is City Of Angels. I mean, what the hell? Regarding City of Angels: You don’t think Meg Ryan’s character brought her death on herself out of sheer stupidity? CLOSING YOUR EYES WHILE BICYCLING ON THE OPEN ROAD is so idiotic I’d say she must have been secretly suicidal. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/75 "2008-12-15T18:31:06Z")
**the Purple Rose of Cairo** : Cecilia (Mia Farrow) has a choice between the character Tom Baxter (Jeff Daniels) from the romanticized world of the film “the Purple Rose of Cairo”, and Gil Shepard (Daniels again), the “real life” actor who played Baxter in “Purple Rose”. Sheppard ultimately persuades Cecilia that she must choose reality over fantasy, and Tom returns to the film world. The next day however, Cecilia finds out that Shepard was merely stringing her along, and has already returned to Hollywood, leaving her in the dust. The film “Purple Rose” has finished it’s run and Cecilia cannot get back together with Baxter. Cecilia has no choice but to return to her dreary tenement home with her deadbeat, abusive husband. I suppose it’s debatable whether it’s actually unfair, but it sure is a kicker seeing Cecilia make a choice to live in reality, rather than fantasy, and get stuck with such a miserable reality. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/76 "2008-12-15T19:06:56Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Regarding City of Angels: > > You don’t think Meg Ryan’s character brought her death on herself out of sheer stupidity? CLOSING YOUR EYES WHILE BICYCLING ON THE OPEN ROAD is so idiotic I’d say she must have been secretly suicidal. I felt exactly the same way. Anyway, it would have been boring if they’d just lived happily ever after wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/77 "2008-12-15T19:23:54Z")
Re. City of Angels: > [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > I felt exactly the same way. Anyway, it would have been boring if they’d just lived happily ever after wouldn’t it? The film it was based on, [Wings of Desire](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wings_of_Desire), managed to pull off its ending. Then again, having seen this film but not the Hollywood remake, I suspect this was a superior film. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/78 "2008-12-15T19:27:16Z")
_Memento_: So Lenny does eventually kill Teddy who, while he may not have been the guy who killed his wife or whatever the truth is, he was stringing Lenny along to do his bidding. So that wasn’t a tragedy. However, while the audience starts to get some closure on the whole affair the movie ends with Lenny saying, “Where was I?” and you are reminded, that Lenny may NEVER get closure on what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/79 "2008-12-15T19:37:36Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > I felt exactly the same way. Anyway, it would have been boring if they’d just lived happily ever after wouldn’t it? Regarding City of Angels: I wouldn’t have thought it boring if the Meg Ryan & Nicholas Cage characters had stayed together–not at all. Revelaing her to be such a moron is what pissed me off. They could have accomplished the exact same thing by having her blindsided rather than so obviously courting death. The first time I saw the movie, when she closes her eyes while bicycling, I immediately said: “What is wrong with you, blondie? Is life not sweet?” ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031/80 "2008-12-16T00:02:55Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Maybe the movie shortens the book there, but Snape plays terribly favourites. He doesn’t try to treat Harry like a normal kid - McGonagall does that, or Flitwick. He carries an active grudge against Harry because he looks like his father James who was a bully against Snape in their schooldays and belittles and demeans him instead of normal criticism. He also treats Neville like shit for being a poor student (in the movies, that’s more shifted to Sean), although once Harry starts teaching Neville DADA by encouraging him, Neville turns out to be a good student > At the same time, he’s playing favourites with the Slytherins, especially with Draco - he accepts misbehaviour in class from Draco that would earn detention for other students. > Likewise, while flying the car into Hogwarts was a dumb move by Harry and Ron, Draco dressed up as Dementor on purpose to influence a Quidditch game, and got off lightly (only lines, I think). > [@](#): > > That’s not the whole picture, I’d say. For one thing, Snape is looking out for Harry on purpose in the first book because he wants to pay off his life-debt to James. Plus, he did agree to work as double agent for Dumbledore, knowing that this is going to be a thankless job with lots of hate because people will misunderstand his motives, constantly on guard. But it’s a job necessary to be done, and Snape, skilled at hiding his feelings, and in Voldemorts circle, is uniquely suited for that. OK, maybe a lot was left out of the movies, and even more has yet to be seen, but since I don’t read the books, I can only judge by the movies, and it just seems that Snape is put upon (Gee, I wonder where he learned how to hide his feelings so well), and that Dumbledore and Hagrid let Harry and his friends do all the dirty work. Shouldn’t it be Dumbledore or another adult breaking into shit or playing Wizard’s Chess, The Deathmatch Home Edition [sup]tm[/sup] and stuff? Again, I can only judge by the movies. Another example that occured to me was in the movie version of **Starsky and Hutch**. It’s minor, but Vince Vaughn’s character is using his charity that supposedly provides second chances to criminals trying to go straight as a drug front. In the end, he’s busted, but I couldn’t help wondering who was going to look after the ex-cons who really _were_ trying to clean up their lives. I found myself hoping that they could go to a similar organization to get help. I mean, it wasn’t as if it wasn’t a legitimate issue. Hutch was right when he called it a vicious circle, and Vince Vaughn was right when he said they deserved second chances after doing their time, even if Vince was lying about helping them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpected-unfairness-in-movies-probable-spoilers/477031.md?page=5)