# Unexpectedly bad-ass behavior from a normally non-bad ass character **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 21, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957 "2005-08-21T04:25:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![want2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@want2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/want2know)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/41 "2005-08-22T16:58:23Z")
Two from cop shows:[ol] [li]\*\* Hill Street Blues\*\*: Lt Henry Goldblume (Joe Spano) actually gut-punched a manacled suspect during an interrogation to the total amazement of Belker. “Nobody’s gonna believe you! You know why? 'CAUSE I’M A NICE GUY!! Mick, tell 'em what a nice guy I am” “Henry Goldblume is the nicest guy on the Hill!” [/li][li]\*\* NYPD Blue\*\*: Greg Medavoy smacking a suspect in a gang shooting over the head with a phone book.[/li][/ol] And who can forget the \*\* L.A. Law\*\* episode when Stuart (Michael Tucker) finally got fed up with Anne’s mother’s anti-Semitism and pushed over mom’s priceless china cabinet? Stuart: Mrs. Kelsey, has a Jew ever done anything to you personally to offend you? Mom: No. {CRASH} Stuart: Now one has! Come on Anne, we’re leaving! I don’t stand and applaud TV as a rule, and I’m not even Jewish, but that got a standing ovation! ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/42 "2005-08-22T17:17:35Z")
I’d say flaming-bat Giles was easly enough in the character’s evolution that it should count – right before it happened, you knew there’d be something, and then he comes in like a force of nature. I’ll also suggest Wesley-Wyndham Pryce. Even though he’s a boob as introduced, he still goes after Angel without quailing. Once the character joins Angel (the show), he steadily goes from his original persona to the hardest man in California by early in S4, but every step makes sense. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/43 "2005-08-22T17:24:35Z")
Oh, Wesley becomes a badass? Neat. I didn’t think much of him from season 3 on Buffy, but it’s good to know he has a longer arc ahead of him. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/44 "2005-08-22T18:16:31Z")
Let me just put a plug in for Buffy’s mom Joyce who fended Spike off with an axe: “You get the hell away from my daughter!” Go mama Summers! ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/45 "2005-08-22T18:24:51Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > I’d say flaming-bat Giles was easly enough in the character’s evolution that it should count – right before it happened, you knew there’d be something, and then he comes in like a force of nature. > > I’ll also suggest Wesley-Wyndham Pryce. Even though he’s a boob as introduced, he still goes after Angel without quailing. Once the character joins Angel (the show), he steadily goes from his original persona to the hardest man in California by early in S4, but every step makes sense. > > –Cliffy Wesley: I’ll take away your bucket. Such a great line. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/46 "2005-08-22T18:46:43Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > Oh, Wesley becomes a badass? Neat. I didn’t think much of him from season 3 on Buffy, but it’s good to know he has a longer arc ahead of him. I’m watching _Angel_’s fifth season for the first time right now and he’s quite possibly the biggest badass on either series as of this moment and completely unrecognizable as the ponce from _Buffy_. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/47 "2005-08-22T19:02:26Z")
I just thought of a good one: Anne Archer blowing away Glenn Close in **Fatal Attraction**. For an hour and a half, ms. Archer simpers, pouts and cowers. Then BAM. I didn’t see that ending coming. ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/48 "2005-08-22T19:07:02Z")
Lena Olin as the squirrely, muttering Josephine Muscat in _Chocolat_. “Who says I can’t use a skillet?” ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/49 "2005-08-22T19:20:37Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I’m watching _Angel_’s fifth season for the first time right now and he’s quite possibly the biggest badass on either series as of this moment and completely unrecognizable as the ponce from _Buffy_. That’s why it’s so cool – between Buffy S3 and later seasons of Angel you’d think they’re two different characters, but if you watch all the episodes in between there’s no point at which you would say “That doesn’t make sense!” –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![cbawlmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cbawlmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cbawlmer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/50 "2005-08-22T19:36:32Z")
Vir Cotto from _Babylon 5_ was lovable, huggable Space Flounder (he was played by Stephen Furst, who also played Flounder in _Animal House_). He had to stand by and watch his employers do a lot of terrible things, but then he secretly organized an underground railroad for the race being oppressed by Vir’s people, saving many lives at the risk of his own. Later, he carried out a dangerous but very necessary political assassination against his planet’s insane emperor. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/51 "2005-08-22T19:45:13Z")
How about the intern in “undercover Brother”. He is a wuss the whole movie and then actually reaches down a guy’s throat and rips out his spine, and then rips the still beating heart out of another guy. Crappy movie though. On a slighty different note, in one episode the ass-kicking but all around good guy Magnum, P.I. actually executes someone in cold blood. Major badassery. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/52 "2005-08-22T19:48:58Z")
Michael Gross as Hiram Gummer in _Tremors 4_. We’re led to expect the usual Gummer character from the other movies but instead we get a nebbish who prefers bicycles to horses. It’s not 'til the end, after being teamed up with a gunfighter, that the typical Gummer behavior shows itself. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/53 "2005-08-22T19:59:30Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > The mention of Data reminded me of two examples. > > “I assume your handprint will open this door whether you are conscious or not.” > > “I cannot permit this to continue.” I remember both of those. A pity he didn’t go ahead and slap Max Headroom in the face for the first one. As for the second–which is, if I remember aright, from _The Most Toys_ --what struck me most about the sequence wasn’t that he was going to kill Fajo, but that a moment he flat-out lied to Riker about it. Not that dispute with either decision. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/54 "2005-08-22T20:04:25Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > I’d say flaming-bat Giles was easly enough in the character’s evolution that it should count – right before it happened, you knew there’d be something, and then he comes in like a force of nature. > > I’ll also suggest Wesley-Wyndham Pryce. Even though he’s a boob as introduced, he still goes after Angel without quailing. Once the character joins Angel (the show), he steadily goes from his original persona to the hardest man in California by early in S4, but every step makes sense. > > –Cliffy I thought about Wesley too. The only reason I didn’t mention him in my OP was that the evolution in his character is SO gradual that, if you were a regular viewer, there was never a moment where there’ was a disconnect between what you expected and what you got. Fex, in the fifth season episode when Fred is dying and one of the Wolfram and Hart minions comes into Wesley’s office to complain about the misallocation of resources, and Wes responds by shooting him in the leg and asking him to send in anyone else with similar concerns, it exactly the kind of thing that Wesley was known for. Any specific Wesley moments? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/55 "2005-08-22T20:06:50Z")
> [@cbawlmer](#): > > Vir Cotto from _Babylon 5_ was lovable, huggable Space Flounder (he was played by Stephen Furst, who also played Flounder in _Animal House_). He had to stand by and watch his employers do a lot of terrible things, but then > > he secretly organized an underground railroad for the race being oppressed by Vir’s people, saving many lives at the risk of his own. Later, he carried out a dangerous but very necessary political assassination against his planet’s insane emperor. Also, there was the incident later on where he borrowed Londo’s sword in order to convince the Drazi “merchant” who’d been planting bugs in his groceries that he ought to quit doing that ---
**Author:** ![cbawlmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cbawlmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cbawlmer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/56 "2005-08-22T20:22:05Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > Also, there was the incident later on > > where he borrowed Londo’s sword in order to convince the Drazi “merchant” who’d been planting bugs in his groceries that he ought to quit doing that True! I also left out the part where he becomes emperor after Londo, and is probably the best one they’d had in millenia. ---
**Author:** ![parthenokinesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/cc9497/32.png) [@parthenokinesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parthenokinesis)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/57 "2005-08-22T21:56:21Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > Oh, Wesley becomes a badass? Neat. Man you have no idea. I found his major transformative episode in Angel Season 2 When he pretends to be Angel and has to be a bodyguard for the daughter of the wizard merchant guy. First he intimidates two would be kidnappers, then later beats the shit out of two others. Then he gets laid. Then after he gets discovered and fired, he shows he’s still smart guy by figuring out daughter is about to be sacrifaced by daddy and leads the rescue kicking much ass. This ain’t your mamma’s Wesley. After that the moments just keep coming. (oh no, another spoiler coming) the ballet episode when Fred chooses Gunn (the only time I hated her) “I’ll take point” “you gonna be ok?” “I should do fine” then the afore mentioned “I’ll take your bucket.” but his best moment of badassery is when he kills his daddy robot, cause it pointed a gun at Fred. (sob) Have I mentioned I hate the writers of the show for what they did to Wes and Fred in season five? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/58 "2005-08-22T22:05:11Z")
\*\*want2know. \*\* On another LA Law note, I loved the episode where Stuart went to play paintball for a client, ineptly took out that same client in the first minute and then slowly turned into a military badass who punked out both Brackman and Rollins. He explained later to his estranged wife Anne the expeience allowed him to “work out some fantasies.” ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/59 "2005-08-23T01:19:48Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > At which point River adds, “Also, I could kill you with my brain.” The scariest part of all, one suspects she may be telling the truth! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2005, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957/60 "2005-08-23T01:37:15Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > One that comes to mind is from the series _Rosanne_, when John Goodman beats the crap out of his sister-in-law’s abusive boyfriend. Up until that point we knew that Dan was a big, strong guy, but he always came across as a nice, friendly, easygoing man, especially compared to his harpy of a wife. It’s only here that we see how far he’s willing to go to defend his family. > > It’s a terrific scene. Roanne and Jackie are screaming, crying and trading accusations, while Dan sits in the corner of the room, visibly distraught, unable to offer any emotional help - largely because the sisters won’t let him get a word in edgewise. The women eventually run out in tears, leaving him alone to slowly stand up, put on his coat and lumber out of the house… > > …only to return a few hours later, cradling his right fist and asking his wife to please bring him a bowl of ice. He calmly, almost bashfully tells her what he did to the other guy, and once again he’s a nice, friendly, easygoing man. I quote that one all the time. Dan comes back in, bloody knuckles, looking for ice. Rosannne: Dan! You said you were just going to talk to him! Dan (Angry): I did! Rosanne: What did he say? Dan (Calming): I don’t remember. Something like “Oh ghod oh ghod, my face, my face!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unexpectedly-bad-ass-behavior-from-a-normally-non-bad-ass-character/317957.md?page=4)