# UnF\*ing Believable (not really, but..) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390 "2006-05-11T17:01:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/81 "2006-05-12T20:48:04Z")
> [@galt](#): > > If my statements don’t apply to you, then you probably should not be offended by them. Well, of course not. Why would I be offended by something that didn’t apply to me? What made you think your statements offended me? Oh, and could you quote the posters in this thread you are replying to? Or were you just sort of pre-emptively covering those points? ---
**Author:** ![galt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@galt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/82 "2006-05-12T20:58:19Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#): > > What made you think your statements offended me? Dunno, maybe the fact that you told me to fuck myself? > [@](#): > > Oh, and could you quote the posters in this thread you are replying to? I’m not going to the trouble, but if you search the thread for “boney”, “stuffy”, and “even sven”, you can probably convince yourself that I’m not talking to you. Your views on the matter _do_ irritate me, but not to the point of telling you to fuck yourself. I think your “couldn’t even begin to get offended by it” attitude does lead to the general acceptance of it, which I dislike. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/83 "2006-05-12T21:08:21Z")
> [@galt](#): > > Dunno, maybe the fact that you told me to fuck myself? So you read that far into my sentence and just stopped there? > [@](#): > > I’m not going to the trouble, but if you search the thread for “boney”, “stuffy”, and “even sven”, you can probably convince yourself that I’m not talking to you. > > Your views on the matter _do_ irritate me, but not to the point of telling you to fuck yourself. I think your “couldn’t even begin to get offended by it” attitude does lead to the general acceptance of it, which I dislike. So…if my emotions don’t match yours, I’m part of the problem. Nice. Where’s this ‘general acceptance’, btw? I must have missed the news story on the big strides being made by the pro-tagging lobby. :rolleyes: I know you’re not talking to me. I think you’re not talking to anyone who is actually here. And if you can’t be bothered to provide context for your comments, then you shouldn’t be upset if people don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![galt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@galt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/84 "2006-05-12T21:11:06Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#): > > So you read that far into my sentence and just stopped there? You’re a real genius, aren’t you? Yes, I did stop there. That was, after all, **the end** (and nearly the entirety) **of what you wrote.** ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/85 "2006-05-12T21:12:44Z")
> [@galt](#): > > You’re a real genius, aren’t you? Yes, I did stop there. That was, after all, **the end** (and nearly the entirety) **of what you wrote.** Oh, I forgot how I arranged it. Okay, so you got to the end and totally forgot the first part? The part that explained the conditions of your invitation to fuck off? So uh…why are you offended by something if it doesn’t apply to you? ---
**Author:** ![mischievous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mischievous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mischievous)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/86 "2006-05-12T21:13:46Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > So as long as they’re not tagging YOUR property, it’s okay… No. The rest of the tags on my building are fine, welcomed even. I’m annoyed by the one that actually blocks me seeing out of my window. Does that make sense? mischievous ---
**Author:** ![galt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@galt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/87 "2006-05-12T21:17:55Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#): > > Oh, I forgot how I arranged it. Okay, so you got to the end and totally forgot the first part? The part that explained the conditions of your invitation to fuck off? So uh…why are you offended by something if it doesn’t apply to you? Ok, very clever. You were actually only addressing me **if** I can’t read, which I obviously can, so you didn’t really tell me to fuck off. Nice work. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/88 "2006-05-12T21:21:29Z")
I have to say that I don’t get bent out of shape by this either. Maybe it’d be different if I owned a house. Can I suggest one thing, **RSSchen**? If you do this thread again, skip the comments like > [@](#): > > I bet they’re mommas’ making welfare off their asses. Because they make you sound like a complete asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/89 "2006-05-12T21:21:35Z")
> [@galt](#): > > Ok, very clever. You were actually only addressing me **if** I can’t read, which I obviously can, so you didn’t really tell me to fuck off. Nice work. Oh, no, you can definitely fuck off. But you told me to disregard something that didn’t apply to me. If you don’t think what I said applied to you, then why are you upset, if those are the rules you play by? ---
**Author:** ![galt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@galt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/90 "2006-05-12T21:29:24Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#): > > Oh, no, you can definitely fuck off. But you told me to disregard something that didn’t apply to me. If you don’t think what I said applied to you, then why are you upset, if those are the rules you play by? I thought I indicated in my last post that I’m not upset. I have been defeated by your game. Please claim victory and move on. ---
**Author:** ![mischievous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mischievous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mischievous)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/91 "2006-05-12T21:35:29Z")
And, for what it’s worth, I do have a car. It’s a ratty old thing and it’s been tagged before - I’m not concerned enough to remove it. I am not unsympathetic to the angry posters here. I understand a love of beautiful buildings, and protection of personal property. Yes, I own objects that it would send me into a black rage to see defaced. I understand the urge to kill people who mess with you and your stuff (as well as the limits our judicial system puts on these urges). The point I’m trying to make is that not **all** tagging is inherently bad. Tagging the Mona Lisa = very bad. Tagging your beautiful old wall = bad. Tagging random shitty overpasses and nondescript brick boxes = can be cool and interesting. Part of it, for me, is that I feel that public spaces encourage public participartion. I leave me car out on the street. My apartment wall abuts a busy street. Thousands of people walk past each every day, and a few will leave their mark in some way. As long as it doesn’t interfere with my use of said objects, I’ve learned to let it go. The things I find beautiful and valuable I keep inside under lock and key. And for those of you about to say that taggers came onto your private property and did damage in a non-public space, _that’s my point_. Sometimes tagging sucks. Sometimes it’s pretty okay. Context is important. mischievous ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/92 "2006-05-12T21:37:57Z")
Wow… this is the Pit, and people typically engage in ridiculous hyperbole here. I have advocated extreme punishment to people who jump lines, bad commercials, Boston drivers, and unruly middle school students. But it’s in the Pit. A place where one can say absolutely ridiculous, mean-spirited, ugly things… and exit and return to the world as we know it, a responsible citizen. **Shagnasty** seems to be going a little further, and it doesn’t sound as if he/she is joking about shooting taggers of his/her property. Maybe he/she is… I dunno. Coming from Southeast Austin - Dove Springs baby, tha 78744 represent! - I have seen my fair share of tags, gang-related and non-affiliated. I never thought it was cool, though plenty of my friends were taggers, gangsters, or wannabes and tagged wherever they could. There’s a reason why Franklin Park was covered in graffiti, and West Fifth Street wasn’t. No-one ever removed the tags in FP, no-one ever got caught or busted doing it… but if you pulled that shit downtown your ass would be in juvie with the quickness. So I certainly think rapid removal of graffiti/tags is the best way to stop it, along with (appropriate) sanctioning of the tagger. Ideally, they should have to remove it and return the wall/fence/electrical box to its previous state. I actually had friends who had to do this. I won’t say it stopped them from tagging, but it stopped them from tagging _those_ particular places… I also think one of the fundamental rules of life is that when you fuck with someone, or something that belongs to someone, you are opening yourself up to a lot of problems that you are largely responsible for. Because if you hadn’t, you would probably be perfectly okay. I agree that shooting someone is ridiculous and even reprehensible, especially over a spray painted tag. But I also think in kindergarten and onward you learn that things belong to other people, and it isn’t right to damage those things. Later you learn that some people are far more irrational about how they respond to being fucked with. That’s why you don’t pick fights with kids who whup a lot of ass, carry knives, or guns. It goes further to say when you don’t know who you’re fucking with, the activity of fucking with someone or something is inherently more dangerous. I’m pretty sure some of the guys I knew who were taggers would be pretty upset if anyone damaged their property, whether it be a boombox, car, or a house. So it stands to reason that they should expect a pretty excited reaction from those who they do it to. So, in my mind, tagging someone’s house or vandalizing their car is pretty fucked up and most kids know that’s crossing a line. Young kids, though, don’t necessarily get the concept that the watertower, lightpole, or library still belongs to someone - the community. I’m a little more forgiving of that type of tagging and I think many times the kids just don’t get that when their mom or dad buys groceries, part of what they pay is tax that goes to keeping the lights on, buying new books, etc. They should still be punished, but in an educable way. There’s also appropriate venues for tagging and graffiti, and I think kids should find those places. Take an art class, get good at it, go work on a mural… that kind of stuff. i think it’s irresponsible and condescending to suggest that poor/inner-city/Latino/Black/Asian/insert your descriptor here youth can’t follow these rules. The community I grew up in had all these types of individuals living there and I can’t think of one who would find it acceptable or okay if someone tagged their wall without permission. My parents live on a corner lot and I think it sucks that they are senior citizens and have to paint over the fire hydrant or sidewalk when some bonehead thinks it would be cool to tag there. (I live across the country so I can’t do it for them.) ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/93 "2006-05-12T21:40:10Z")
> [@mischievous](#): > > Tagging your beautiful old wall = bad. Tagging random shitty overpasses and nondescript brick boxes = can be cool and interesting. One man’s nondescript brick box is another man’s beautiful old wall. Obviously the guy who tagged **galt** ’s wall didn’t care for its beauty. Does that make it okay? ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/94 "2006-05-13T03:28:54Z")
> [@galt](#): > > Dunno, maybe the fact that you told me to fuck myself? > I’m not going to the trouble, but if you search the thread for “boney”, “stuffy”, and “even sven”, you can probably convince yourself that I’m not talking to you. > > Your views on the matter _do_ irritate me, but not to the point of telling you to fuck yourself. I think your “couldn’t even begin to get offended by it” attitude does lead to the general acceptance of it, which I dislike. Well since you called me out, fuck off. The OP was talking about tagging of a yet to be completed mini-mall/shoping center, something you would have known had you bothered to read the fucking thead before your outrage-o-meter exploded. That plus the thinly veiled classist/racist sentiments is what prompted my participation. FWIW, in the situation you descibed I can see your outrage, in the case of the OP er no. **Hampshire** if someone keyed my car, I wouldn’t be thinking tagger; I’d be wondering who the fuck I pissed off. ---
**Author:** ![MizGrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cdc98d/32.png) [@MizGrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MizGrand)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/95 "2006-05-13T14:20:54Z")
I didn’t realize that the “thinly veiled” classist remarks were so inflammatory. I think that EVERYBODY deep down inside, is a classist somewhere/somehow. If you look inside yourself hard enough, do you _truly_ find no one that you think you’re just a little bit better than? I AM better than some random tagger, simply because I’m not defacing/devaluing someone else’s investment. If that’s considered classist, then so be it. When I bitched about the tag on the PG & E pole I was afraid that my house had been cased and that the tag indicated a possible robbery target. That might disturb just about anyone, especially after having that thought echoed by a stupid, but well-meaning neighbor. I just wanted to mention that in a period of less than 24 hours the infamous BAF has returned to embellish the work so that now all parallel surfaces match. At least it’s coordinated. I’m big on matching stuff. Oh, and I, um, sometimes AM an asshole. It’s okay; yours wouldn’t be the first observation, though the term I’m more comfortable with is _bitch_. Assholes are guys. ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/96 "2006-05-13T14:27:44Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#): > > Oh, no, you can definitely fuck off. But you told me to disregard something that didn’t apply to me. If you don’t think what I said applied to you, then why are you upset, if those are the rules you play by? ahh… the old Vizzini argument “But it’s so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy’s? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me” with apologies to The Princess Bride ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/97 "2006-05-13T17:03:28Z")
> [@RSSchen](#): > > I think that EVERYBODY deep down inside, is a classist somewhere/somehow. You appear to be one on the surface. > [@](#): > > If you look inside yourself hard enough, do you _truly_ find no one that you think you’re just a little bit better than? That’s not classism, that’s just judging people by what you perceive their merits to be. I took “I bet they’re mommas’ making welfare off their asses” to mean “because these people pissed me off, I conclude that they are poor. Also, grammar isn’t my strong point.” > [@](#): > > Oh, and I, um, sometimes AM an asshole. I’m glad you’re comfortable with it, although I hope you’re not under the impression that admitting you’re an asshole makes you less of an asshole. > [@](#): > > It’s okay; yours wouldn’t be the first observation, though the term I’m more comfortable with is _bitch_. Assholes are guys. Oh, so now you’re a sexist too? 😃 I went with asshole because bitch sometimes has positive connotations. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/98 "2006-05-13T17:15:20Z")
> [@RSSchen](#): > > I didn’t realize that the “thinly veiled” classist remarks were so inflammatory. I think that EVERYBODY deep down inside, is a classist somewhere/somehow. Debatable, but even if true, most people realize that it’s not exactly an admirable quality, and strive to overcome it. After all, classism is at best ignorant, and don’t we fight that here? Embracing your prejudices and excusing them as “universal”? Definitely not classy. ---
**Author:** ![MizGrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cdc98d/32.png) [@MizGrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MizGrand)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/99 "2006-05-13T17:26:34Z")
Maybe those that protest just realize that they themselves are the ones I look down my nose at. And if you don’t think you pass judgment on anyone, well think again. All we have to do to see you pass judgment is search through the forums. And my grammar, thank you, is excellent. Again, I was being **facetious**. This is the Pit, and I may bitch about whatever I choose. If you don’t like it, don’t read it. And **Marley** you are just being an asshole. Wipe yourself off. Ahhh, welfare babies…we all cry the same. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390/100 "2006-05-13T17:38:28Z")
Well of \*course \* I pass judgement, sweetie. I just _did_. And yes, you’re free to bitch about whatever you like. Your right to free speech isn’t compromised by our right to disagree with you. If there’s a right to say whatever you want and have it greeted with complete agreement and e-hugs, I’m not aware of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unf-ing-believable-not-really-but/356390.md?page=6)