# Unfiltered California **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2014, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfiltered-california/681316 "2014-02-14T09:23:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfiltered-california/681316/21 "2014-02-15T08:08:42Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > I’m sorry, but I have to go with _ **crême brûlée** _ due to the fact that it’s my coffee creamer faux flavor of choice. I drink a dollop or two of that stuff practically every single day. Oh…wait, what was the original question? Well, how can they call it that unless it puts a crust layer on top of your coffee? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfiltered-california/681316/22 "2014-02-15T09:09:51Z")
Isn’t California one of the states that advocated for the adoption of cigarette filters in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfiltered-california/681316/23 "2014-02-15T12:27:45Z")
> [@Karen\_Lingel](#): > > _This_ is the ridiculous idea. There are hundreds of thousands of smokers, 99% of whom throw multiple butts on the ground per day. Do you want to hire a giant herd of Butt Police (at public expense) to patrol all the streets and neighborhoods to enforce the anti-littering laws? Will you vote yourself a tax increase to fund the Butt Police? Why should non-smokers shoulder the expense caused by smokers? > > What we need is a $1 per filter deposit. Smokers will return the butts to get their deposit back, or bums will pick up the butts for spending money. I think the $1 deposit per filter would be an excellent incentive, but I am curious why you think enforcing the laws already on the book is a ridiculous idea. Do you feel that law should just be revoked since it isn’t being enforced? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfiltered-california/681316/24 "2014-02-17T14:44:13Z")
> [@Zyanthia](#): > > I think the $1 deposit per filter would be an excellent incentive, but I am curious why you think enforcing the laws already on the book is a ridiculous idea. Do you feel that law should just be revoked since it isn’t being enforced? I was curious about that as well. You wouldn’t need to fine the millions of smokers who litter. A well publicized crack down (with plenty of advance notice) would only need to snare a relatively few people to be effective. I have never been ticketed for jaywalking in Dallas, TX, nor do I know anyone who has, but I have heard enough FOF stories about it that I do not jaywalk when in Dallas. It’s pretty rare to see anyone jaywalk there. In Atlanta it seems that more people jaywalk than use a cross walk. Why? Because some time in the past Dallas cracked down on jaywalking. It didn’t require ticketing every jaywalker, just those that happened to get caught while a cop was on his/her regular beat. Fine a few, coordinate a media blitz and word gets around. ---
**Author:** ![Karen\_Lingel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karen_lingel/32/18649_2.png) [@Karen\_Lingel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karen_Lingel)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfiltered-california/681316/25 "2014-02-19T00:47:54Z")
> [@Zyanthia](#): > > I am curious why you think enforcing the laws already on the book is a ridiculous idea. Do you feel that law should just be revoked since it isn’t being enforced? No of course not. The problem is that enforcement is expensive and likely ineffective. First off, we need people on the lookout for butt-throwers. Where do those people come from? You have to hire a bunch more police (expensive), or move police from the Murder and Rape and Traffic departments into the Butt department (bad idea). Or perhaps you think there are already plenty of police, all watching people throw butts on the ground, and shrugging and saying “We don’t feel like enforcing that law”. And your solution is to make _those_ police enforce the law instead. That’s nuts. I wager that the majority of butt-tossing does NOT occur in front of idle cops. I disagree with **Doctor Jackson** about the effectiveness of crack-downs. Every once in a while the police will crack down on speeders. Has that cured speeding? Heck no. (Certainly not in California.) Third, if police are citing people for throwing butts on the ground, it just means people won’t throw butts on the ground _when the police are watching_. Unless you are watching everyone, all the time, those butts will still get thrown on the ground. It’s just too quick and easy to do. (It takes way less time than jay-walking, for instance.) My point is that an _engineering control_ is always superior to an _administrative control_. An administrative control is to say “Please don’t do it”. An engineering control makes it difficult or impossible to do. So for instance, if cigarettes don’t have filters, it is impossible to throw them on the ground. Another example: it is illegal to burglarize someone’s home. But I am guessing you use your engineering control – door locks – anyway. Which do you think is more effective at keeping thieves out of your house – the law or the locks? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfiltered-california/681316/26 "2014-02-19T03:00:59Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > \ > This bill smells of tree-hugger propaganda. They already took away our plastic bags, and they won’t stop until we’re all drinking tofu shakes and wearing hemp loincloths. Bingo. California is a state full of the biggest hypocrites I’ve run across yet. ---
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfiltered-california/681316/27 "2014-02-19T11:30:26Z")
You know, there is only one New Year’s resolution that I have ever kept ---- Around 25 years ago, I was in a park somewhere and I heard a park ranger say that it takes 100 years for a cigarette butt to decompose. :eek: So I resolved not to throw them on the ground anymore. There’s been maybe a dozen times in all these years that a butt has slipped out of my hand while I’m riding my bike, or whatever. But, except for those, I really have kept faithfully to my intention. (I live in California.) When you go out to a beautiful place in nature, those unmistakeable filter tips really are obtrusively ugly. But I don’t understand – many people who would never think of leaving their potato chip bags or soda cans out in nature will still toss their butts down. It’s really not hard to just stick the damn thing in your pocket. Probably they have no idea that you can flick the cherry off with your bare fingers, and not sustain a 3rd-degree burn. All that being said, I love my Camels; but unfiltered Camels are just too strong. Plus, because there’s nothing else to hold it by, you must put out an unfiltered cigarette when it’s somewhere around 3/4 of an inch long. Smokes are VERY expensive now, and that’s wasteful. Why doesn’t some brilliant young individual design a bio-degradeable filter? Surely it’s possible? ---
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfiltered-california/681316/28 "2014-02-19T13:16:33Z")
Thank you for explaining **Karen** , you brought up a lot of points I hadn’t considered yet. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfiltered-california/681316/29 "2014-02-19T14:45:09Z")
> [@Karen\_Lingel](#): > > I disagree with **Doctor Jackson** about the effectiveness of crack-downs. Every once in a while the police will crack down on speeders. Has that cured speeding? Heck no. (Certainly not in California.) Want a more draconian example of exacty how effective littering crackdowns can be? Look to Singapore. Signs saying “Liittering subject to $500 fine” are ineffective. Actually fining people $500 for littering, on a consistent basis, is effectiive and does have a deterrent effect. CA police can’t be everywhere, all the time, for sure. Neither can Singapore police. The difference is that, in Singapore one knows that there will be punishment if caught. BTW, speeding crackdowns DO work, but only while in place and a short time afterwards. If you want a more permanent effect the crackdown must be sustained and/or repeated often. Does tha cost money/resources? You bet, though the expense could be offset by the fines imposed. If there are truely “immense damage to wildlife and public health caused by discarded cigarette filters” then CA needs to consider if the initial expense of enforcement is worth it. > [@](#): > > My point is that an _engineering control_ is always superior to an _administrative control_. An administrative control is to say “Please don’t do it”. An engineering control makes it difficult or impossible to do. So for instance, if cigarettes don’t have filters, it is impossible to throw them on the ground. Cigarette butts are a hot button issue because they are connected to a tobbacco product and Big Tobbacco is the bogey man of the hour. In truth they are no different than the water bottles, plastic wrappers, gum, etc. that litter our land. Why single them out? All I’m avocating is that the existing administrative solutions be earnestly attempted before adding additional regulations (which can be easily bypassed, btw). > [@](#): > > Another example: it is illegal to burglarize someone’s home. But I am guessing you use your engineering control – door locks – anyway. Which do you think is more effective at keeping thieves out of your house – the law or the locks? That depends largely on where one lives. I do have locks on my doors, but rarely are they used. I live in a town of 20,000 people located in one of the largest MSA’s in the country - not exactly out in the sticks. ---
**Author:** ![Karen\_Lingel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karen_lingel/32/18649_2.png) [@Karen\_Lingel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karen_Lingel)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfiltered-california/681316/30 "2014-02-19T18:36:05Z")
> [@](#): > > In truth they are no different than the water bottles, plastic wrappers, gum, etc. that litter our land. Why single them out? In CA, cans and bottles have deposits on them. You can no longer get plastic grocery bags. These things are virtually non-existent as trash now. If only we could get deposits on cigarette butts and Carls Jr bags… ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfiltered-california/681316/31 "2014-02-19T18:45:33Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Cigarette butts are a hot button issue because they are connected to a tobbacco product and Big Tobbacco is the bogey man of the hour. In truth they are no different than the water bottles, plastic wrappers, gum, etc. that litter our land. \*\*Why single them out? \*\* All I’m avocating is that the existing administrative solutions be earnestly attempted before adding additional regulations (which can be easily bypassed, btw). I’ve seen people standing at the designated smoking shelter, with a butt receptacle, flicking them on the ground. How hard is it to put it in a designated can when you are standing next to it? I rarely see people littering from their car \*other than \*flicking a butt out the window. (Do cars come with ashtrays anymore?) Probably because they don’t break down, I see a lot more butts on the side of the road than the others combined. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfiltered-california/681316/32 "2014-02-19T19:24:51Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > I’ve seen people standing at the designated smoking shelter, with a butt receptacle, flicking them on the ground. How hard is it to put it in a designated can when you are standing next to it? And I’ve seen people standing right next to a trashcan drop litter on the ground. Often as not I will walk over, pick up the container and drop it in the trash. Whether the litterer sees me do it or cares one way or the bothers me none. Your question applies to either situation. > [@](#): > > I rarely see people littering from their car \*other than \*flicking a butt out the window. (Do cars come with ashtrays anymore?) Probably because they don’t break down, I see a lot more butts on the side of the road than the others combined. C’mon, now… Look at most any roadside in America and you’ll see all manner of trash that has been thrown out of a car window. Smokers are probably (not conclusively) the worst offenders, but I still don’t understand why they would be singled out for a new littering law. Philosophically, I don’t have a problem with a “butt deposit” (although it sounds nasty!). In reality, though, some poor store clerk would have to handle, count and ship that nastiness. :: pukey smiley :: ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfiltered-california/681316/33 "2014-02-19T23:30:12Z")
Well, in truth, I would like to see all the companies that sell stuff be responsible for the garbage the produce. This “_once I take your money it’s your problem_” attitude needs to go away. I mean everything, from butts to bottle to batteries to microwaves to cars. Trash in general is a big problem that just, umm, gets swept under the rug. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfiltered-california/681316.md?page=1)