# Unforgivable movie (old, obscure, you don't care) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 30, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260 "2006-01-30T21:31:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/41 "2006-02-01T03:34:52Z")
Yes, but. That was the mentality–I cannot remember the whole plot of this movie, but see if you can catch, _Pennies From Heaven_ --it’s about a young, poor couple, just starting out. At one point, she (forgotten who is the lead) suffers a miscarriage. A friend comes to visit her to commiserate and support her. She tells him, " When I knew I had lost the baby, I pinched my arm real hard and said, no frowns here-you’ve got to face life with a smile." (or something like that). Even my 13 year old self, watching this on the 10:30pm movie on channel 9 knew this was messed up. I think I’ve seen this DD movie. Was she unsure and grasping at various people’s elbows most of the time, while emoting bout the wonders of motherhood? Is he a bit of an ass? I seem to remember the -ahem- interesting maternity clothes at one point…or maybe I’m confusing it with something else. And DD rocked in _The Pajama Game_ (I think that was her). I love her in Pillow Talk, too. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/42 "2006-02-01T05:55:13Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Yes, but. > > That was the mentality–I cannot remember the whole plot of this movie, but see if you can catch, _Pennies From Heaven_ --it’s about a young, poor couple, just starting out. At one point, she (forgotten who is the lead) suffers a miscarriage. > > A friend comes to visit her to commiserate and support her. She tells him, " When I knew I had lost the baby, I pinched my arm real hard and said, no frowns here-you’ve got to face life with a smile." (or something like that). > > Even my 13 year old self, watching this on the 10:30pm movie on channel 9 knew this was messed up. Different time, different sensibility. _Pennies from Heaven_ is 100% postmodern commentary on, among other things, movies like _Tunnel of Love_. It’s genius, of course, is that it is also a great deal more. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > I think I’ve seen this DD movie. Was she unsure and grasping at various people’s elbows most of the time, while emoting bout the wonders of motherhood? Is he a bit of an ass? I seem to remember the -ahem- interesting maternity clothes at one point…or maybe I’m confusing it with something else. No; although the Ethyl Mertzish next door neighbor wears a maternity thing; a smockish frock. But no real focus lights on it. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > And DD rocked in _The Pajama Game_ (I think that was her). I love her in Pillow Talk, too. Yes. Totally rocked. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/43 "2006-02-05T19:56:31Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > A lot of th e WTF?!?! factor, Brainglutton, is the fact that this is a FIFTIES comedy, a DORIS DAY vehicle, set in the world of\* I Love Lucy\* (plus martinis). I guess we’re just too jaded with dark comedies nowadays to find this kind of plot really shocking. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/44 "2006-02-05T19:59:14Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > That was the mentality–I cannot remember the whole plot of this movie, but see if you can catch, _Pennies From Heaven_ --it’s about a young, poor couple, just starting out. At one point, she (forgotten who is the lead) suffers a miscarriage. 😕 Are you talking about the 1981 picture about the Depression, with Steve Martin, and musical numbers? I don’t recall any miscarriage. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/45 "2006-02-05T22:43:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I guess we’re just too jaded with dark comedies nowadays to find this kind of plot really shocking. I cannot, off the top of my head, think of one explicit dark comedy from Hollywood mainstream before, what, _Dr. Strangelove_? Plenty of disguised agendas, but actual dark comedies? Hm. Anyone? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/46 "2006-02-06T02:17:13Z")
> [@](#): > > I cannot, off the top of my head, think of one explicit dark comedy from Hollywood mainstream before, what, Dr. Strangelove? Plenty of disguised agendas, but actual dark comedies? Hm. > > Anyone? [Arsenic and Old Lace](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036613/) (1944) springs to mind immediately. Two sweet little old ladies use their homemade elderberry wine to poison a dozen strangers, who are then buried in the basement by their delusional nephew who believes he’s Teddy Roosevelt digging locks in Panama? Only to be discovered by their _other_ mentally ill nephew (Raymond Massey), this one a warped murderer looking to a) stash his own dead body, and b) get his sadistic medico sidekick/partner in crime (Peter Lorre) to fix his botched plastic surgery since the quack surgeon inadvertently made him look like Boris Karloff? And a scene whereby Mortimer, the only sane member of the family (Cary Grant), is about to be brutally tortured by his long lost brother? It’s all played for laughs … successfully, I might add. AND it was directed by the king of feel-good shmaltz himself, Frank Capra. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/47 "2006-02-06T03:34:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Remember when Cary Grant and Baby went to Connecticut to go gay all of a sudden? I’m still trying to figure out whether I’ve seen this one or not. What was it called? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/48 "2006-02-06T03:45:47Z")
> [@choie](#): > > [Arsenic and Old Lace](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036613/) (1944) springs to mind immediately. Two sweet little old ladies use their homemade elderberry wine to poison a dozen strangers, who are then buried in the basement by their delusional nephew who believes he’s Teddy Roosevelt digging locks in Panama? Only to be discovered by their _other_ mentally ill nephew (Raymond Massey), this one a warped murderer looking to a) stash his own dead body, and b) get his sadistic medico sidekick/partner in crime (Peter Lorre) to fix his botched plastic surgery since the quack surgeon inadvertently made him look like Boris Karloff? And a scene whereby Mortimer, the only sane member of the family (Cary Grant), is about to be brutally tortured by his long lost brother? > > It’s all played for laughs … successfully, I might add. AND it was directed by the king of feel-good shmaltz himself, Frank Capra. d’OH! Of course! I knew I was missing something. Any others? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/49 "2006-02-06T03:48:58Z")
> [@zagloba](#): > > I’m still trying to figure out whether I’ve seen this one or not. What was it called? [_Bringing Up Baby._](http://www.filmarchief.be/photocours/ZomerFilmCollege/Bringing%20Up%20Baby.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/50 "2006-02-06T04:19:22Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > d’OH! > > Of course! I knew I was missing something. > > Any others? Well, my mind went from Cary Grant in _Arsenic_ to _His Girl Friday_, for which I think a case could be made that it’s a relatively dark comedy – at least, there’s certainly a cynical edge to it, and the death penalty subplot is bleak as all get-out. But maybe I’m erroneously conflating “dark comedy” with cynical humor? If not, I’d include most of Preston Sturges’s output. How about Hitchcock’s _The Trouble with Harry_? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/51 "2006-02-06T04:37:49Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Well, my mind went from Cary Grant in _Arsenic_ to _His Girl Friday_, for which I think a case could be made that it’s a relatively dark comedy – at least, there’s certainly a cynical edge to it, and the death penalty subplot is bleak as all get-out. But maybe I’m erroneously conflating “dark comedy” with cynical humor? If not, I’d include most of Preston Sturges’s output. > > How about Hitchcock’s _The Trouble with Harry_? Yeah on _Harry_; nah on _Friday_. It’s not “dark” in that it’s not twisted, although it is sophisticated in its targets. Or something. A dark comedy has fun with something you’re not \*supposed _to have fun with; in Friday, the humor’s pretty “appropriate.” See, if_ [Baby Face](http://onfilm.chicagoreader.com/movies/capsules/644_BABY_FACE) \*were played for laughs, THAT would be a dark comedy. Maybe \*[Miracle of Morgan’s Creek](http://onfilm.chicagoreader.com/movies/capsules/6187_MIRACLE_OF_MORGANS_CREEK) \*, being a satire of the Virgin Birth. But it’s so well disguised that there’s really no darkness; just subtext. Which I think is different. Maybe [_Trouble in Paradise_](http://onfilm.chicagoreader.com/movies/capsules/8620_TROUBLE_IN_PARADISE)? Twisted crime/romance. The lead characters are a matched set of thieves; the happy ending is that they escape the law to con again. So how many is that? Two definite: Arsenic, and Harry. I’d say dark comedies were pretty dang rare, pre-60s. VERY rare pre-war. I blame the Production Code, which had no sense of humor whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/52 "2006-02-06T17:51:24Z")
Okay, the definition of ‘dark comedy’ makes more sense to me … although with that, I’m still pushing for _Friday_ since the coldhearted way the reporters treat the man about to be hanged _is_ played for laughs! 🙂 Anyway, how about two flicks that take on Hitler and Nazism, making us laugh at something that’s definitely not normally considered funny: Chaplin’s _The Great Dictator_ and Ernst Lubitsch’s _To Be or Not To Be_? Especially the former, which is a satire much like _Strangelove_. (I recently saw _Baby Face_, by the way … what a bizarre and enthralling movie!) ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/53 "2006-02-06T18:50:20Z")
So, let me ask you _this_ : how come the French lady asked Widmark of all people for the thousand bucks. That’s not very logical or professional. Right or wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/54 "2006-02-06T20:52:42Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > So how many is that? Two definite: Arsenic, and Harry. > > I’d say dark comedies were pretty dang rare, pre-60s. VERY rare pre-war. I blame the Production Code, which had no sense of humor whatsoever. [_“Harvey”_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042546/)? The lighter side of alcoholism… ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/55 "2006-02-08T05:31:20Z")
There’s the original version of [The Ladykillers](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048281/). I actually like the Coen Brothers version better. :eek: When I watched it I was looking forward to seeing Peter Sellers in it, but I found that instead Alec Guiness totally stole the show. The only thing besides Star Wars I’ve seen him in, and he amazed me. From what I’ve seen of Hitchcock, his movies always had some dark humor, even if they weren’t dark comedies. I kind of laughed at the end of Vertigo. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/56 "2006-02-08T06:44:29Z")
Doris a virgin? Not in most of her movies. My Dream Is Yours (1949): single mother. Storm Warning (1951): married to a Ku Klux Klansman. I’ll See You in My Dreams (1951): married to songwriter Gus Kahn. The Winning Team (1952): married to baseball pitcher Grove Cleveland Alexander. Love Me or Leave Me (1955): singer and gangster’s moll. The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956): wife and mother. Julie (1956): married to a psycho killer. The Tunnel of Love (1958): married and trying hard to get pregnant. It Happened to Jane (1959): single mother of two. Please Don’t Eat the Daisies (1960): wife and mother of four. Midnight Lace (1960): wife tormented by psycho. The Thrill of It All (1963): wife of an OB, and mother of two. Move Over, Darling (1963): long-lost wife and mother of two. Send Me No Flowers (1964): married to Rock Hudson. Do Not Disturb (1965): married to Rod Taylor. Where Were You When the Lights Went Out? (1968): married to Patrick O’Neal. With Six You Get Eggroll (1968): widow with three sons. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/57 "2006-02-08T08:08:57Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Okay, the definition of ‘dark comedy’ makes more sense to me … although with that, I’m still pushing for _Friday_ since the coldhearted way the reporters treat the man about to be hanged _is_ played for laughs! 🙂 Except, we’re laughing AT them, not with them. Mostly, we’re just horrified. > [@choie](#): > > Anyway, how about two flicks that take on Hitler and Nazism, making us laugh at something that’s definitely not normally considered funny: Chaplin’s _The Great Dictator_ and Ernst Lubitsch’s _To Be or Not To Be_? Especially the former, which is a satire much like _Strangelove_. Yes. Although, both movies were made before WWII really got going, so they probably weren’t nearly as dark as they would’ve been after 1945. And even so, again, we’re laughing at the bad guys; we’re not grinning evilly along with them. Hm. Where does that leave Strangelove? I’m confusing myself. > [@choie](#): > > (I recently saw _Baby Face_, by the way … what a bizarre and enthralling movie!) Yuh, no? Did you see the recently discovered uncensored versioin? WAY more. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/58 "2006-02-08T08:10:33Z")
> [@Plynck](#): > > [_“Harvey”_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042546/)? The lighter side of alcoholism… “Alcoholism” was not Capital Letter “Alcoholism” until, what, _The Lost Weekend._ Before that, drunkenness was comedic, not tragic. Plus, you can’t get much LESS dark that _Harvey_. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/59 "2006-02-08T08:13:55Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Doris a virgin? Not in most of her movies. > > My Dream Is Yours (1949): single mother. > Storm Warning (1951): married to a Ku Klux Klansman. > I’ll See You in My Dreams (1951): married to songwriter Gus Kahn. > The Winning Team (1952): married to baseball pitcher Grove Cleveland Alexander. > Love Me or Leave Me (1955): singer and gangster’s moll. > The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956): wife and mother. > Julie (1956): married to a psycho killer. > The Tunnel of Love (1958): married and trying hard to get pregnant. > It Happened to Jane (1959): single mother of two. > Please Don’t Eat the Daisies (1960): wife and mother of four. > Midnight Lace (1960): wife tormented by psycho. > The Thrill of It All (1963): wife of an OB, and mother of two. > Move Over, Darling (1963): long-lost wife and mother of two. > Send Me No Flowers (1964): married to Rock Hudson. > Do Not Disturb (1965): married to Rod Taylor. > Where Were You When the Lights Went Out? (1968): married to Patrick O’Neal. > With Six You Get Eggroll (1968): widow with three sons. Proves the persistence of image; none of that does anything to alter the fact that “Doris Day” is culturally synonymous with “professional virgin,” due largely to the success of the films you left \*off \*your list. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260/60 "2006-02-08T08:21:17Z")
> [@Talon Karrde](#): > > There’s the original version of [The Ladykillers](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048281/). I actually like the Coen Brothers version better. :eek: > When I watched it I was looking forward to seeing Peter Sellers in it, but I found that instead Alec Guiness totally stole the show. The only thing besides Star Wars I’ve seen him in, and he amazed me. Yeah, brilliant. Approximately 187.5 times better than the Coen brothers’ version. Guinness is amazing. Dark comedy, definitely; but not Hollywood. > [@Talon Karrde](#): > > From what I’ve seen of Hitchcock, his movies always had some dark humor, even if they weren’t dark comedies. I kind of laughed at the end of Vertigo. I agree. ONe of HItchcock’s geniuses was the balance of humor and tension. But the did more of that later in his career, I think. His funniest early things–like _Young and Innocent; Mr. and Mrs. Smith_–weren’t very dark; and his darkest early stuff–_Number 17; The Skin Game; Murder_–weren’t very funny. His best dark comedies are, for me, \*Psycho \*and _Family Plot._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgivable-movie-old-obscure-you-dont-care/342260.md?page=4)