# Unforgiven - English Bob's backstory **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 26, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgiven-english-bobs-backstory/501110 "2009-06-26T21:43:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgiven-english-bobs-backstory/501110/1 "2009-06-26T21:43:01Z")
In Clint Eastwood’s film **Unforgiven** , Richard Harris plays English Bob. He’s a dangerous gunslinger, and it’s said that he, “…works for the railroad shooting Chinamen.” Interesting line of work. Why would the railroads in the 1870’s want to kill the Chinese? Also, was that character based upon someone from history? Can’t find anything on Google. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgiven-english-bobs-backstory/501110/2 "2009-06-26T21:55:41Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > In Clint Eastwood’s film **Unforgiven** , Richard Harris plays English Bob. He’s a dangerous gunslinger, and it’s said that he, “…works for the railroad shooting Chinamen.” > > Interesting line of work. Why would the railroads in the 1870’s want to kill the Chinese? > > Also, was that character based upon someone from history? Can’t find anything on Google. Animosity toward Chinese immigrants was VERY common in the West, and many were murdered with impunity. BUT… not by the railroads. The railroads liked the Chinese, who seemed like a nearly unlimited source of dirt-cheap labor. Working class whites were the ones most likely to hate or kill the Chinese, who were seen as trespassers who were stealing all the jobs. ---
**Author:** ![mstockton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mstockton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mstockton)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgiven-english-bobs-backstory/501110/3 "2011-10-15T22:52:33Z")
The railroad “employed” many coolies, as they were, in the trans-con construction. Needless to say many deserted. To preclude this in the middle of nowhere, places where labor was in short supply, they had them shot as warning to others. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgiven-english-bobs-backstory/501110/4 "2011-10-15T23:45:07Z")
I assumed he shot them just before payday so that the railroad wouldn’t have to pay up. And remember his nickname: The Duck of Death. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgiven-english-bobs-backstory/501110/5 "2011-10-16T00:01:12Z")
I think he’s very loosely based in part on [Ben Thompson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Thompson), a Yorkshire born Texas marshal who, like many lawmen of the old west, crossed the border back and forth between legal and illegal activities. Billy the Kid’s biographers differ, but it’s generally believed he was born of Northern Irish parents, _possibly_ in Ulster but more probably in the northeast U.S. (most think NYC, some accounts theorize Boston). His birth name was probably Henry McCarty though, again, there are different theories. It’s not inconceivable this somehow influenced the writers as well. English Bob definitely uses a persona. Harris spoke to this in interviews at the time. There’s a scene where English Bob is speaking with a fairly distinguished English accent (basically Richard Harris’s theatrical voice) and when Little Bob confronts him he slips into a much lower (on the socioeconomic ladder) dialect from the one he’s been speaking in, indicating a very poor boyhood- industrial or perhaps a potato famine survivor. He rights himself and resumes the original voice before Little Bill cripples his hands and arrests him. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgiven-english-bobs-backstory/501110/6 "2011-10-16T00:04:17Z")
> [@mstockton](#): > > The railroad “employed” many coolies, as they were, in the trans-con construction. Needless to say many deserted. To preclude this in the middle of nowhere, places where labor was in short supply, they had them shot as warning to others. Or they might have shot any that were seen as troublemakers. > [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I assumed he shot them just before payday so that the railroad wouldn’t have to pay up. That’s a lot of people to be killing. And it’s a little inefficient to shoot your cheapest laborers if you’re going to being needing the same number next week. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgiven-english-bobs-backstory/501110/7 "2011-10-16T00:07:01Z")
[This scene.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWtEQzyMkQk) Around 1:30 is when his dialect changes for a moment. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgiven-english-bobs-backstory/501110/8 "2011-10-16T00:34:38Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > [This scene.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWtEQzyMkQk) Around 1:30 is when his dialect changes for a moment. Love the Swedish subtitles! ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgiven-english-bobs-backstory/501110/9 "2011-10-16T02:18:57Z")
[QUOTE=mstockton] The railroad “employed” many coolies, as they were, in the trans-con construction. Needless to say many deserted. To preclude this in the middle of nowhere, places where labor was in short supply, they had them shot as warning to others. [/QUOTE] > [@Colibri](#): > > Or they might have shot any that were seen as troublemakers. In particular, those uppity rabble-rousers who might try to organize the others into striking for better pay and working conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgiven-english-bobs-backstory/501110/10 "2011-10-16T02:37:03Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > English Bob definitely uses a persona. Harris spoke to this in interviews at the time. There’s a scene where English Bob is speaking with a fairly distinguished English accent (basically Richard Harris’s theatrical voice) and when Little Bob confronts him he slips into a much lower (on the socioeconomic ladder) dialect from the one he’s been speaking in, indicating a very poor boyhood- industrial or perhaps a potato famine survivor. He rights himself and resumes the original voice before Little Bill cripples his hands and arrests him. He definitely changes to a lower class _English_, not Irish, accent, so I doubt he’s a potato famine survivor. His accent changes again as he’s leaving on the stagecoach, I’ll have to watch it again to see if it’s a clear regional accent. My memory of it is as a working class London accent, but I’ve not seen it for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgiven-english-bobs-backstory/501110/11 "2011-10-16T04:26:38Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > He definitely changes to a lower class _English_, not Irish, accent, so I doubt he’s a potato famine survivor. His accent changes again as he’s leaving on the stagecoach, I’ll have to watch it again to see if it’s a clear regional accent. My memory of it is as a working class London accent, but I’ve not seen it for a while. From what I have read, Richard Harris was carrying on a feud with Michael Caine at the time, and English Bob’s lapse into whining Cockney was a dig at Caine. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgiven-english-bobs-backstory/501110/12 "2011-10-16T15:03:08Z")
> [@Scissorjack](#): > > From what I have read, Richard Harris was carrying on a feud with Michael Caine at the time, and English Bob’s lapse into whining Cockney was a dig at Caine. A bit off topic, but he was apparently a petty guy (rest his soul and all). He had loud and vocal feuds with half the British entertainment industry and more than a few Americans. I’m surprised he and O’Toole remained chums. (Both McCourt brothers- Frank [author of _Angela’s Ashes_] and character-actor/writer Malachy, came to blows with him and trashed/got trashed by him in print after the book made them famous.) ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unforgiven-english-bobs-backstory/501110/13 "2011-10-16T23:17:32Z")
All this time I thought it was [David Warner](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001831/) who played English Bob. :o