# Unfortunate Changes in Language **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 19, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986 "2009-05-19T17:46:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/21 "2009-05-20T01:10:02Z")
> [@](#): > > (I forget if upperclassmen could do this, or only teachers-- who I think were called prefectures) Prefects (not “prefectures”) in British schools are certain final year students who are given some special responsibility for maintaining discipline amongst the other students (in exchange for certain privileges). Usually they are marked in some way, by badges or modified uniforms (prefects in my high school had yellow piping round the edge of their uniform blazers). The prefect system has no particular connection with the fagging system. Both my high school (boys only, but not a boarding school) and my primary (=elementary) school had prefects, but it would have been unthinkable for there to be anything like fagging (and quite regardless of any homosexual implications). ---
**Author:** ![TGWATY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@TGWATY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TGWATY)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/22 "2009-05-20T14:25:19Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > yep…this is an old and honorable meaning of the word. > > To be a fag was to be in the service of an older person. To be the butler, janitor, and most importantly,— the empty-er of the chamber pot every morning. > It was a status symbol to have a fag serving you, and a sign of low-status if you were required to fag for someone else. According to C. S. Lewis in _Surprised By Joy_, his school experience was that very often fags in this old sense had to act as fags in the modern sense. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/23 "2009-05-20T14:25:28Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Prefects (not “prefectures”) A prefecture is a particularly large prefect. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/24 "2009-05-20T14:35:40Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Incidentally, when I was growing up in Britain (not in the public-school-going upper classes, thank God), the word “fag” mostly meant cigarette. I remember hearing a story about a British celeb (I forget who), getting off the plane in New York and immediately announcing to his hosts, “I’m dying for a fag.” As a member of the public-school-going-upper classes, I was in the interesting position once of smoking a fag while fagging, in the company of a fag. By the time I went to public school (up to '99), fagging had devolved into scheduled cleaning tasks which the first-year students were expected to perform. The housemaster or one of the prefects used to post a schedule with names and weekly tasks. One kid would be cleaning the kitchenette, one had to mop the changing room floor, etc. One day I was performing my assigned fagging task, which was cleaning out the designated smoking area at the rear of the house, and smoking at the same time. The other kid who was assigned to help was gay. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/25 "2009-05-20T14:37:12Z")
> [@](#): > > I wish I could remember title of the the older book I was reading recently. A surprising sentence in it went something like this: > > “The landlady went downstairs to tend to her unexpected visitors, and her husband followed ejaculating.” > > What a mental image, eh? I grew up knowing only the sense of “saying something short, explosively” for _ejaculation_. In Parochial School, they used the word constantly and without a touch of irony or apparent awareness that there was another meaning to the words. “Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!” was considered a typical ejaculation, and was counted as a holy act (as opposed to saying “Damn!” when you were surprised, which was a sin). The nuns were constantly ejaculating, and urging us to do the same. In fact, we were urged to make “Spiritual Bouquets” which listed the numbers of prayers of various sorts we were to make on someone’s behalf, or in their memory – 5 Our Fathers, 25 Hail Marys, 50 Glory Be’s… … and 500 Ejaculations. They were always urging some ridiculously high number of them You’re sniggering your head off, aren’t you? But this was for real, and was at the time, for all of us kids, at least, the common and accepted use of the word. Not so long before, it was the common and accepted use in society as well. My copy of Robert E. Howard’s **Conan** includes, in the story “Rogues in the House”, the line “Conan ejaculated” (upon seeing the ape-man Thak). I don’t think he was sexually exvcited by the sight (although, at the time I first read it, I was learning the other uses of the word, and I had a twinge of doubt). So in the 1930s you could use it without fear of _double entendres_. Nowadays I seriously doubt that nuns urge kids to ejaculate 500 times for anyone, and a hero will only ejaculate in an adventure story if the author is looking for a quick laugh. Using such a word UN-ironically would be pulling a real boner. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/26 "2009-05-20T15:10:17Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Please do try to keep a firm pecker, sir. I think the expression is “Keep your pecker up.” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/27 "2009-05-20T15:51:33Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I grew up knowing only the sense of “saying something short, explosively” for _ejaculation_. Born in '83–we referred to this sort of thing as an “interjection.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/28 "2009-05-20T15:53:20Z")
_does secret Millenial handshake with **SFG** _ ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/29 "2009-05-20T15:54:05Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I should not be at all surprised if the American slang “fag” (=homosexual) actually derives from the practice of having younger boys work as fags (=personal servants) to older boys in British public (=the oldest and most prestigious private, boarding) schools. The OED disagrees, saying it comes from “faggot,” which clearly came first. Also, “fag=homosexual” first appeared in the US, where the practices of British public schools did not exist and were pretty much unknown. “Gay” meaning “cheerful” has been displaced and phrases like “The Gay Nineties” have faded away. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/30 "2009-05-20T16:39:34Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Prefects (not “prefectures”) in British schools are certain final year students who are given some special responsibility for maintaining discipline amongst the other students (in exchange for certain privileges). Usually they are marked in some way, by badges or modified uniforms (prefects in my high school had yellow piping round the edge of their uniform blazers). I’m an American and had never heard the word “prefect” in this context until I read the Harry Potter books. Until my cousin married an upper-crust English guy (his parents are Sir Donald and Lady Ruth). At a pre-wedding brunch, I was chatting with my cousin’s husband’s cousin and he was telling me about his school, which my cousin’s husband had also attended. It sounded…well, like something out of a movie. It was awesome. I asked him if they had to wear robes and mortarboards, and he told me no, “only the prefects did.” FANTASTIC. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/31 "2009-05-20T16:43:00Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > It was awesome. I asked him if they had to wear robes and mortarboards, and he told me no, “only the prefects did.” There are no public schools in Britain where robes and/or mortarboards are part of the normal uniform I’m afraid - even for prefects. You’re lucky if you get an extra stripe on your tie. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/32 "2009-05-20T17:11:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > _does secret Millenial handshake with **SFG** _ If it involves ejaculation, I’m pretty sure you owe me dinner first. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/33 "2009-05-20T17:29:45Z")
It’s not a change in language per se, but I always think of how the meaning of “marquee” varies from Britain to here. I still remember that confusing thread about the British lady who wanted a marquee at her wedding and all of the Americans were like “Why would you want a big, scrolling sign?” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/34 "2009-05-20T17:37:55Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > If it involves ejaculation, I’m pretty sure you owe me dinner first. Well, as it happens, you weren’t very good. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/35 "2009-05-20T17:40:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You’re lucky if you get an extra stripe on your tie. Pshaw, sir. At my school, you got a _slightly thinner_ stripe than normal. Really quite a crappy distinction. But then, we were quite crappy prefects. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/36 "2009-05-20T18:21:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, as it happens, you weren’t very good. Now you’re making me wish you were a fag. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/37 "2009-05-20T18:22:17Z")
See above… I was! ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/38 "2009-05-20T18:33:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There are no public schools in Britain where robes and/or mortarboards are part of the normal uniform I’m afraid - even for prefects. > > You’re lucky if you get an extra stripe on your tie. Okay, really? Because I don’t THINK he was jerking me around. Do you actually know what every school in Britain does? I’m not trying to be snotty, srsly. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/39 "2009-05-20T18:36:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > See above… I was! Oh, well, that’s all right, then. Reminds me of when I was spending a semester in Japan and two of my good friends there were fellow smokers, from Great Britain (one Scottish, one English), and gay. “Stepping outside for a fag” jokes abounded. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/40 "2009-05-20T18:42:21Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Okay, really? Because I don’t THINK he was jerking me around. Do you actually know what every school in Britain does? I’m not trying to be snotty, srsly. No, but even Eton, Harrow, Oundle, Winchester, Shrewsbury, _et al_. - the hoitiest of the toity- don’t have that stuff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986.md?page=3)