# Unfortunate Changes in Language **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 19, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986 "2009-05-19T17:46:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/61 "2009-05-21T13:03:22Z")
From a Nanny episode featuring a 1940’s flashback: Sheffield: Niles is a queer old boy, but we’ve shared a few fags and had a gay old time. Nanny: So you’re saying Niles is odd, but you’ve had a few cigarettes together and had a good time. Sheffield: Yes. Why do you ask? Nanny: Just checking. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/62 "2009-05-21T13:28:07Z")
> [@lalenin](#): > > I had never heard of this Jules Verne book, so I looked it up on Google Books, and there it was. Thanks! > > As an appropriate aside, the very first illustration of the book is captioned: “Briant and the negro rushed forward.” > > [Adrift in the Pacific - Jules Verne - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=jE0MAAAAYAAJ&dq=Jules+Verne%27s+Adrift+in+the+Pacific&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=YvQSSvCdJ8yclQeT9tDUAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4) “And the negro rushed forward” would be an AWESOME title for Obama’s memoirs. and the negro rushed forward. and the negro rushed forward. and the negro rushed forward. that line is so wrong and so awesome on so many levels. I think I am suffering from faggism. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/63 "2009-05-21T13:33:30Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Incidentally, when I was growing up in Britain (not in the public-school-going upper classes, thank God), the word “fag” mostly meant cigarette. I remember hearing a story about a British celeb (I forget who), getting off the plane in New York and immediately announcing to his hosts, “I’m dying for a fag.” Peter O’Toole. IIRC, First visit to the US. Got off the plane and asked a cop, “Do you know where I can a couple of fags around here?” Hilarity ensued. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/64 "2009-05-21T14:14:30Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > What’s wrong with “donut”? How else would you spell it? 😮 America running on Dunkin notwithstanding, the word is “doughnut”. ---
**Author:** ![Arglefraster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@Arglefraster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arglefraster)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/65 "2009-05-21T18:23:07Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Similarly, “making love” had a different meaning. You’d find passages like “Mother smiled as she looked out the window and saw Mr. Pritchett making love to her daughter on the porch.” > > “Making love” meant something more like “proclaiming romantic interest” or “making googly eyes.” Sometime it was used in even more innocent context to simply mean “to be very charming”. I remember reading an old story in which a young girl (as in 6 years old or so) was described as “making love to the whole room”. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/66 "2009-05-21T19:05:45Z")
In _Gone With the Wind_, Scarlett thought about how she could have stood letting other men make love to her when she was so in love with Ashley. Knowing when the book was written, I rather figured the definition had changed. I thought it meant flirting. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/67 "2009-05-21T22:32:18Z")
In _The Silver Chair_, one of the Narnia books, Jill, Eustace, and Puddleglum find themselves with the giants. When trying to discover what the giants’ plans for them are, Jill > [@](#): > > made love to everyone–the grooms, the porters, the housemaids, the ladies-in-waiting, and the elderly giant lords whose hunting days were past. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/68 "2009-05-22T00:38:12Z")
> [@Arglefraster](#): > > Sometime it was used in even more innocent context to simply mean “to be very charming”. I remember reading an old story in which a young girl (as in 6 years old or so) was described as “making love to the whole room”. Are you perhaps thinking of C. S. Lewis’s The Silver Chair? Jill is described as making love to the all the residents in a castle to convince them that she and her companions are clueless about the plans to cook them for dinner. Given that said residents are giants, the contemporary meaning of “make love” is even more disturbing. Jill’s not six, though. She’s at least 12 or 13, I should think. ETA: That’ll teach me to respond to an hours-old post without reading the rest of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/69 "2009-05-22T03:07:17Z")
I like the words Thee and Thine and Thou-ist and Whilst and Whence… Whoever took those words away should ALSO be taken away and LOCKED away Quick someone write me a hikou using those words ---
**Author:** ![Arglefraster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@Arglefraster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arglefraster)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/70 "2009-05-22T12:38:20Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Are you perhaps thinking of C. S. Lewis’s The Silver Chair? Jill is described as making love to the all the residents in a castle to convince them that she and her companions are clueless about the plans to cook them for dinner. Given that said residents are giants, the contemporary meaning of “make love” is even more disturbing. > > Jill’s not six, though. She’s at least 12 or 13, I should think. I don’t think so. I did read the Narnia books, but I seem to recall the scene I read about being some sort of house party, and it was the hosts’ young daughter that was being cute and showing off and thusly “making love” to everyone. I don’t really remember anything else about the book though. Just that scene because that was the first time I had heard anyone use that definition of the phrase. I remember thinking “Wait, what?” and re-reading the sentence because I thought I must have read it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/71 "2009-05-26T16:37:32Z")
From _The Adventures of Sally_, P.G. Wodehouse: > [@](#): > > Personally, the reason I barred him was because he wasn’t straight. ---
**Author:** ![Teacake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Teacake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teacake)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/72 "2009-05-26T18:34:27Z")
To be fair, that one hasn’t really changed. People still talk about someone being straight with them, or giving them a straight line, or being a straight-up kind of person, etc. And to answer the question I completely missed on the previous page, yes, I was talking about English public schools. Here, the ones that you don’t pay for are called state schools. Public schools are the really posh, usually very old, ones. Private or independent schools are the ones that wish they were as upper-class as the public schools and charge large fees to mostly middle-class parents. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/73 "2009-05-26T20:56:50Z")
**Teacake** , we still use “straight” with the the same meaning as it’s used in the quote, but not with that phrasing. We don’t just refer to someone as “straight” unless we mean heterosexual–it’s always part of a phrase, as in the examples you gave. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/74 "2009-05-29T04:58:44Z")
From _The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes_: > [@](#): > > So he sat as I dropped off to sleep, and so he sat when a sudden ejaculation caused me to wake up, and I found the summer sun shining into the apartment. That must have been some dream Watson was having. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/75 "2009-05-29T06:51:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There are no public schools in Britain where robes and/or mortarboards are part of the normal uniform I’m afraid - even for prefects. > > You’re lucky if you get an extra stripe on your tie. At my (state) school, the senior teachers wore gowns almost all the time and mortar boards at formal occasions. Prefects had stripey purple and white ties. No gowns. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/76 "2009-05-29T07:00:44Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > From _The Adventures of Sally_, P.G. Wodehouse: Nowadays, for the same meaning in modern text it would sound like this: > [@](#): > > Personally, the reason I barred him was because he wasn’t on the straight and narrow. Still sounds wonky to me, but it doesn’t sound like she means he’s gay. And by gay I mean homosexual. ERm, Uuugh OK I give up. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/77 "2009-05-29T08:04:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There are no public schools in Britain where robes and/or mortarboards are part of the normal uniform I’m afraid - even for prefects. > > You’re lucky if you get an extra stripe on your tie. Though at my bog-standard state comprehensive the prefects _did_ wear gowns (no mortarboards, though). Only while on duty ejecting miscreants and ne’er-do-wells from the corridors during breaktime, but we did have them. I would have preferred one of those rather smart enamel badges, myself, but no: gowns it was. ---
**Author:** ![Teacake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Teacake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teacake)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/78 "2009-05-29T11:19:29Z")
What, actual academic gowns? When was this, if you don’t mind me asking? And the same question to **kevlaw** , please! ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986/79 "2009-05-29T12:04:49Z")
> [@Teacake](#): > > What, actual academic gowns? When was this, if you don’t mind me asking? And the same question to **kevlaw** , please! Sure – simple plain black ones similar to [this,](http://www.mun.ca/convocation/images/content/118-97548373.jpg) without the cap and hood. This was in the 70s. Only one of our teachers regularly wore a gown, and the fact that he was known to everyone (even, I suspect, some of the teachers) as “Mad Jack” should tell you all that needs telling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unfortunate-changes-in-language/496986.md?page=3)