# Unhappy kick-boxer takes aim at referee **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 24, 2008, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092 "2008-08-24T12:24:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/1 "2008-08-24T12:24:31Z")
Stop the presses! What a photo! An Olympic Cuban kick-boxer was disqualified and took aim at the offending [referee](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/n/a/2008/08/23/sports/s063402D61.DTL&o=0). This isn’t an RO thread; it’s just that the photo of the kick was taken so perfectly that it’s going to become a classic. A classic of what not to do at a kick-boxing match. ---
**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/2 "2008-08-24T12:38:59Z")
[QUOTE=teela brown] Stop the presses! What a photo! An Olympic Cuban kick-boxer was disqualified and took aim at the offending [referee](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/n/a/2008/08/23/sports/s063402D61.DTL&o=0). This isn’t an RO thread; it’s just that the photo of the kick was taken so perfectly that it’s going to become a classic. A classic of what not to do at a kick-boxing match. [/QUOTE] And the cuban promptly gets a [life ban](http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gBc5uA2gEfcqAO50n1lqHot8aWLAD92O1BS80) from the world taekwondo federation . ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/3 "2008-08-24T13:17:56Z")
Some are saying the lifetime ban is not really in effect, but the most likely outcome once the appropriate body meets. I wish there was footage of this. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/4 "2008-08-24T14:21:08Z")
That is awesome. I’m sure that there is footage somewhere! Yet another reason to exclude sports from the Olympics that do not have an objective judging system. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/5 "2008-08-24T14:23:42Z")
[QUOTE=Acid Lamp] That is **awesome**. I’m sure that there is footage somewhere! [/QUOTE] Please explain your use of the word “awesome.” ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/6 "2008-08-24T14:25:22Z")
You can find the footage on youtube complete with an annoying rap song. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/7 "2008-08-24T14:28:29Z")
I’m not condoning his actions, and not being knowledgeable about the rules of the sport I couldn’t call the match; BUT…anyone who has ever had to compete in a “judged” event has had that thought at one time or another. It wasn’t the right thing to do, in fact it was stupid; but I bet it felt good. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/8 "2008-08-24T14:42:56Z")
[QUOTE=Acid Lamp] Yet another reason to exclude sports from the Olympics that do not have an objective judging system. [/QUOTE] Taekwondo is more or less objective, isn’t it? Landing such and such a punch on such and such area of your opponent is worth so many points, and the guy with the most points wins. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/9 "2008-08-24T15:00:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Under WTF (World Tae Kwon Do Federation) and Olympic rules, sparring is a full-contact event and takes place between two competitors in an area measuring 10 meters square. Each match or bout consists of three non-stop rounds of contact with rest between rounds. 14-17 black belt fighters fight in 2-minute rounds with a 30-second break,senior fighters also fight in 2-minute rounds with 30-second breaks. **Points are awarded for permitted, accurate, and powerful techniques to the legal scoring areas; light contact to a scoring area does not score any points.** A kick or punch that makes contact with the opponent’s hogu (a trunk protector that functions as a scoring target) scores one point; a kick to the head scores two points. Punches to the head are not allowed. If a competitor is knocked down by a scoring technique and the referee counts, then an additional point is awarded to the opponent. Sounds like the awarding of points is based upon the ref’s determination of nature of any given contact. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/10 "2008-08-24T15:38:31Z")
[QUOTE=Acid Lamp] Sounds like the awarding of points is based upon the ref’s determination of nature of any given contact. [/QUOTE] I believe the ref functions as he does in boxing - simply making sure the fighters follow the rules. Points are awarded based on whether four judges see a strike land. ---
**Author:** ![Dottygumdrop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Dottygumdrop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dottygumdrop)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/11 "2008-08-24T16:00:33Z")
As I read it ([link](http://www.foxsports.com.au/beijing_olympics/story/0,27313,24231037-5016792,00.html)), the match was awarded to the other player on a disqualification, because the Cuban exceeded the one-minute injury time-out (he had apparently broken his toe). ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/12 "2008-08-24T16:10:52Z")
And it was a [cheap shot](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQobUL89yfA). What an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/13 "2008-08-24T16:21:47Z")
He was one point up, and was near to the end of the match, it appears he decided to go down and run the clock out - he claimed he had a broken toe. If this is what he tried to do, and then was disqualified for overunning the time allowed for injury, its very likely that his own national federation - or his coaching team had told him to stay down. I wonder if there will be more than just a lifetime ban for him, could be the Cuban Taekwondo federation is held partly responsible - and may get some sort of sacntion as well. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/14 "2008-08-24T16:23:17Z")
[QUOTE=Acid Lamp] Sounds like the awarding of points is based upon the ref’s determination of nature of any given contact. [/QUOTE] And we all know that would never happen based on a ref’s perspective on action in the field of one of those objective sports, like Football. Nor that there wouldn’t [still be hot and heavy debates](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Reception) decades later for any of those calls.\* \*Yes, this is low-hanging fruit. But since I pay almost zero attention to any pro sport, it’s all I can think of off the top of my head. The point I’m making is that I am sure that there are plenty of contested referee decisions in every sport - that affect the scoring, and even the outcome of those matches as well. I don’t give a crap whether you like the so-called non-objective sports. But less stop with this BS about how those sports shouldn’t be involved in the Olympics. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/15 "2008-08-24T16:44:03Z")
[QUOTE=casdave] He was one point up, and was near to the end of the match, it appears he decided to go down and run the clock out - he claimed he had a broken toe. If this is what he tried to do, and then was disqualified for overunning the time allowed for injury, its very likely that his own national federation - or his coaching team had told him to stay down. I wonder if there will be more than just a lifetime ban for him, could be the Cuban Taekwondo federation is held partly responsible - and may get some sort of sacntion as well. [/QUOTE] This doesn’t get you anything since the fight clock is stopped for the injury time-out. One may object to the subjective nature of judging hits, but the injury rule is one of the most cut-and-dried rules of taekwondo. The fighter may ask for time-out, at which point the clock is stopped and they are given exactly one minute to sort things out. The countdown timer is on the scoreboard for everyone to see. In addition the referee will give verbal warnings when time is about to run out. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/16 "2008-08-24T17:29:06Z")
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki] I don’t give a crap whether you like the so-called non-objective sports. But less stop with this BS about how those sports shouldn’t be involved in the Olympics. [/QUOTE] Why? The Olympics were designed to pit the best humanity has to offer against each other to push the envelope of athletic performance. The only fair way to do this is by completely objective scoring, ie: against the clock, or the weight, etc. Subjective performances, undermine that premise entirely as they require a human to make a decision, rather than turning to the cold facts. Who determines what a perfect gymnastics maneuver, or taekwondo strike looks like? If you wanted to be fair in contact sports, They ought to fight until knockout, submission, or inability of a competitor to continue. I’m not taking anything away from these athlete’s achievements, I just think that they, and team sports belong in a different division of athletics than those that can be measured objectively. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/17 "2008-08-24T17:37:08Z")
[QUOTE=Terminus Est] This doesn’t get you anything since the fight clock is stopped for the injury time-out. One may object to the subjective nature of judging hits, but the injury rule is one of the most cut-and-dried rules of taekwondo. The fighter may ask for time-out, at which point the clock is stopped and they are given exactly one minute to sort things out. The countdown timer is on the scoreboard for everyone to see. In addition the referee will give verbal warnings when time is about to run out. [/QUOTE] Not only that, but after he was disqualified, the Cuban had a spectacular (and somewhat miraculous) recovery. I can’t imagine anyone launching such a beautiful kick on a broken toe. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/18 "2008-08-24T17:45:21Z")
[QUOTE=Acid Lamp] Why? The Olympics were designed to pit the best humanity has to offer against each other to push the envelope of athletic performance. The only fair way to do this is by completely objective scoring, ie: against the clock, or the weight, etc. Subjective performances, undermine that premise entirely as they require a human to make a decision, rather than turning to the cold facts. Who determines what a perfect gymnastics maneuver, or taekwondo strike looks like? If you wanted to be fair in contact sports, They ought to fight until knockout, submission, or inability of a competitor to continue. I’m not taking anything away from these athlete’s achievements, I just think that they, and team sports belong in a different division of athletics than those that can be measured objectively. [/QUOTE] And I suppose in fencing they should use sharpened epees and fight to the death. You’re just being silly. There are subjective calls in a great many perfectly legitimate sporting endeavours. Hell, you’re eliminating weightlifting as an event since there are judges to determine whether a lift is successful. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/19 "2008-08-24T18:02:39Z")
When I saw the kick, I wondered why the coach was also banned. Then I read what the coach’s comments were. He should’ve been banned for that and, if there were justice, subject to suit for slander/libel (whichever it is). ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092/20 "2008-08-24T18:39:22Z")
[QUOTE=Gorsnak] And I suppose in fencing they should use sharpened epees and fight to the death. You’re just being silly. There are subjective calls in a great many perfectly legitimate sporting endeavours. Hell, you’re eliminating weightlifting as an event since there are judges to determine whether a lift is successful. [/QUOTE] Fencing shouldn’t be an event any more than Taekwondo. it falls into the same category, but since it is an event using weapons fer chrissakes, I’m sure a little leeway can be granted. Don’t they use colored chalks on the ends of those things anyway to determine the validity of a strike? As to weightlifting, they could modify the rules to include a certain number of seconds , or tenths of seconds the competitor must hold the weight to be a successful lift if they wanted to remove most of the doubt. Reading the rules of it, a lot has to do with correct form :rolleyes: rather than physical weight lifted. If you want to be fairer in terms of these events, why not let them do best out of three, or five to determine a winner? I don’t mean the current three rounds of a whopping two whole minutes, but three or five bouts per matchup. It would take a bit longer, but certainly would remove some of the doubt of the “bad call” decision. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unhappy-kick-boxer-takes-aim-at-referee/461092.md?page=2)