# Unidentified Aerial Phenomena: What's going on? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759 "2020-04-28T18:21:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/41 "2020-04-28T22:37:47Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Because they might need to discuss the capabilities of foreign and domestic aircraft that need to be kept secret, along with information about our ability to detect and track aircraft, as well as any deficiencies these videos have uncovered. > > Another reason is to cover up a secret international intergalactic alien conspiracy. > > I’ll go with the first one. Do Congress members know about secret and/or experimental aircraft? Would an unmanned aircraft be able to perform those maneuvers? If the military were testing a secret aircraft, would they do it near military aircraft to test it’s stealth capability? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/42 "2020-04-28T22:45:50Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Do Congress members know about secret and/or experimental aircraft? They might, but it can be much simpler than that, just having a witness testify that our equipment can or can’t detect objects of a certain size or speed is enough to keep a meeting closed. > [@](#): > > Would an unmanned aircraft be able to perform those maneuvers? What maneuvers? What anything may have done here has not been ascertained. > [@](#): > > If the military were testing a secret aircraft, would they do it near military aircraft to test it’s stealth capability? Maybe. Also, you know what looks exactly like an undetectable aircraft? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/43 "2020-04-28T23:20:51Z")
> [@](#): > > **TriPolar** > What maneuvers? What anything may have done here has not been ascertained. Yes they[have;](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Theodore_Roosevelt_UFO_incidents#History) **Radar contacts, infrared detections, and visual sightings by the pilots and weapon systems officers** have been reported with Lt. Accoin stating that “multiple sensors [were] reading the exact same thing.” Lt. Graves stated that the objects were showing up at 30,000 feet as well as sea level and could accelerate, slow down and hit hypersonic speeds with manoeuvres **“beyond the physical limits of a human crew.”** ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/44 "2020-04-28T23:29:02Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Yes they[have;](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Theodore_Roosevelt_UFO_incidents#History) > > **Radar contacts, infrared detections, and visual sightings by the pilots and weapon systems officers** have been reported with Lt. Accoin stating that “multiple sensors [were] reading the exact same thing.” Lt. Graves stated that the objects were showing up at 30,000 feet as well as sea level and could accelerate, slow down and hit hypersonic speeds with manoeuvres **“beyond the physical limits of a human crew.”** Those are different incidents. There’s nothing odd about something flying at 30,000 feet or sea level. You provide no other numbers, it’s just some opinion. Put together all your facts into one coherent statement. You’re just pointing here and there at statements that usually contain less than what you claim. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/45 "2020-04-28T23:42:05Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Those are different incidents. There’s nothing odd about something flying at 30,000 feet or sea level. You provide no other numbers, it’s just some opinion. Put together all your facts into one coherent statement. You’re just pointing here and there at statements that usually contain less than what you claim. The citation literally explains the inexplicable manouverability of the craft and speeds which reached hypersonic capabilities and you’re saying that _it’s nothing odd_. It’s not some opinion it’s the data obtained from pilot sightings as well as radar data. Bolding; > [@](#): > > Lt. Graves stated that the objects were showing up at 30,000 feet as well as sea level **and could accelerate, slow down and hit hypersonic speeds with manoeuvres “beyond the physical limits of a human crew.”** ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/46 "2020-04-29T00:09:45Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > The citation literally explains the inexplicable manouverability of the craft and speeds which reached hypersonic capabilities and you’re saying that _it’s nothing odd_. It’s not some opinion it’s the data obtained from pilot sightings as well as radar data. > > Bolding; Again, aside from 30,000 feet, give some specifics. Accelerate and slow down at what rate? Reach what speed? What maneuvers? You keep repeating the same non-specific claim. If all this was on sensors there should be a lot of those details. Otherwise, it’s the same kind of language that appears in every alien CT, “beyond the physical limits of a human crew”, " unknown craft performing aerodynamic manouvers that no existing aircraft, foreign or domestic, is capable of doing". Why do you think they keep using those well worn phrases instead of providing specific, verified details? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/47 "2020-04-29T00:14:35Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > What stands out is why have a closed Congressional meeting about something as minor as preventing hazards to air safety. > [@TriPolar](#): > > Because they might need to discuss the capabilities of foreign and domestic aircraft that need to be kept secret, along with information about our ability to detect and track aircraft, as well as any deficiencies these videos have uncovered. > > Another reason is to cover up a secret international intergalactic alien conspiracy. > > I’ll go with the first one. What stands out to me is the utter impossibility of a bunch of Congressmen hearing convincing evidence of extraterrestrials and never blabbing about it to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/48 "2020-04-29T00:21:23Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > But not everyone believes it’s Aliens, alot of people, including myself, are open to the suggestion it’s a classified US military project, but the US military having in their capabilities an aircraft or craft which can do aerodynamic manouvers at sharp banking angles or accelerate thousands of miles per hour in a few seconds? Without any exhaust plumes or aerodynamic markings? Even the F117 didn’t do that. Well, ignoring the other possibilities is not making yours more likely. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/49 "2020-04-29T00:36:55Z")
The pilots would have been sent out there based on radar information. they would be able to verify that with their onboard radar. If both sets of radar data corroborate each other then the pilots’ visual observations are color commentary. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/50 "2020-04-29T00:48:39Z")
It is common to hear observers express surprise at how fast the “object” moves, or the impossible maneuvers it makes. Sudden turns, appearing to disregard gravity, etc. This is a strong suggestion that what is being observed is not an object, but an image formed by light, such as a reflection. Reflections have no problems with gravity and inertia; physical objects do, whether they’re Earth-sourced or otherwise. The logical conclusion, in the absence of any other evidence, is not “it’s an alien craft that violates the laws of physics,” but “it’s a light image obeying the laws of physics.” IOW, an illusion. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/51 "2020-04-29T00:57:11Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > It is common to hear observers express surprise at how fast the “object” moves, or the impossible maneuvers it makes. Sudden turns, appearing to disregard gravity, etc. This is a strong suggestion that what is being observed is not an object, but an image formed by light, such as a reflection. Reflections have no problems with gravity and inertia; physical objects do, whether they’re Earth-sourced or otherwise. > > The logical conclusion, in the absence of any other evidence, is not “it’s an alien craft that violates the laws of physics,” but “it’s a light image obeying the laws of physics.” IOW, an illusion. I’m thinking one of the unmanned aircraft being experimented with. They can maneuver in a manner that would make a human pilot pass out. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/52 "2020-04-29T01:22:41Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Well, ignoring the other possibilities is not making yours more likely. Who said I was ignoring them? > [@](#): > > **TriPolar** > Again, aside from 30,000 feet, give some specifics. Accelerate and slow down at what rate? Reach what speed? What maneuvers? You keep repeating the same non-specific claim. [Here you go.](https://youtu.be/GS2ZKw3G9-w?t=205) > [@](#): > > If all this was on sensors there should be a lot of those details. Otherwise, it’s the same kind of language that appears in every alien CT, “beyond the physical limits of a human crew”, " unknown craft performing aerodynamic manouvers that no existing aircraft, foreign or domestic, is capable of doing". [Here you go.](https://youtu.be/tf1uLwUTDA0?t=36) > [@](#): > > Why do you think they keep using those well worn phrases instead of providing specific, verified details? They haven’t, they literally tracked them on radar doing these kind of manouvers. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/53 "2020-04-29T01:25:55Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > It is common to hear observers express surprise at how fast the “object” moves, or the impossible maneuvers it makes. Sudden turns, appearing to disregard gravity, etc. This is a strong suggestion that what is being observed is not an object, but an image formed by light, such as a reflection. Reflections have no problems with gravity and inertia; physical objects do, whether they’re Earth-sourced or otherwise. > > The logical conclusion, in the absence of any other evidence, is not “it’s an alien craft that violates the laws of physics,” but “it’s a light image obeying the laws of physics.” IOW, an illusion. Ok, but does aircraft tracking equipment lock on a reflection? Because in the videos they lock on the whatever they are numerous times. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/54 "2020-04-29T02:54:29Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Who said I was ignoring them? By continuing with the items that have already more simple explanations. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/55 "2020-04-29T03:06:04Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Ok, but does aircraft tracking equipment lock on a reflection? Because in the videos they lock on the whatever they are numerous times. Actually when I see the videos [it does look a lot like when one looks at floaters in one’s eyes](http://www.kadrmaseyecare.com/floaters--flashes.html). One can follow the floaters for a few moments but eventually one runs out of space and the floater zips away from one’s view. IMO some equipment quirk took place, and they fixed on that “target” but because there was eventually a need to control the flight then the “floater” inside the device zinged away. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/56 "2020-04-29T06:42:47Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > What stands out to me is the utter impossibility of a bunch of Congressmen hearing convincing evidence of extraterrestrials and never blabbing about it to anyone. Forget about Congress. How could anyone think Trump would keep his mouth shut if he was told aliens have been contacted or been proved to exist? I read a lot of flying saucer books in the mid-60s when I was a teenager. I’ve been waiting for evidence for a long time. Some of those stories sound very similar to this one. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/57 "2020-04-29T09:45:12Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Ok, but does aircraft tracking equipment lock on a reflection? Because in the videos they lock on the whatever they are numerous times. Since I don’t have access to the details, and they may be sketchy or distorted anyway, I can’t provide an exact answer in this particular case. But I recall investigations by experts like Joe Nickell and Phil Klass about such stories (compare the squid fishing lights off of NZ, which were also claimed to be radar tracked). Radar signals are far from perfect; spurious signals are common. Radar operators are used to ignoring them, but if they get a report of some phenomena and think they can coordinate it with an unknown signal, that qualifies as confirmation. Signals that do not are ignored. It can be a lot like finding passages in Nostradamus that seem to coordinate with real events. Or looking at an ancient monument and finding celestial bodies that seem to line up with the stones. Given enough things to compare, you can always find a match, and humans are pattern-matching animals. > [@Voyager](#): > > I read a lot of flying saucer books in the mid-60s when I was a teenager. I’ve been waiting for evidence for a long time. Some of those stories sound very similar to this one. Ever notice how, after the passage of time, the “evidence” for aliens doesn’t get any stronger? Irving Langmuir said this was one characteristic of pseudoscience. I have a large coffee-table style book, _UFOs, the Best Evidence_. The “best evidence” is fuzzy blobs of light and other undefinable or easily faked images. You would think by now, with cameras in everyone’s pocket, the evidence would have improved somewhat, but it hasn’t. [XKCD said it best.](https://xkcd.com/1235/) ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/58 "2020-04-29T11:12:31Z")
Let’s break it down into the three different films. 1/ The first one, known as the _Nimitz encounter_ from 2004, is the one associated with David Fravour. We should note first of all that Fravour did not take this film, but it was taken shortly after by another plane. The object shown in this film does not seem to be the same object that Fravour saw, and when analysed in detail by Mick West at Metabunk, this film was found to be consistent with a distant plane observed by an FLIR (Forward-looking InfraRed detector). The Nimitz footage is consistent with an earthly plane about 50km away, and I suspect it was taken by the second pilot because he was looking around the sky for anything - _anything_ that might have been an intruder at that point. All the strange behaviour of the object on the film can be explained by the characteristics of the FLIR itself and the way it changes magnification. I don’t know what this distant plane was, but it is likely to have been an entirely innocent plane passing by, perhaps in a different sector of the testing range and outside the Nimitz’ area of interest. 2/ There are two other clips from 2015 which have been released, and the names of the pilot or aircrew who took them are not known. The first one, known as _GoFast_, is probably a large bird, which is neither flying at sea level or at 25,000 feet but about halfway between the two. The reason it looks like that this object is moving fast is that the sea is scanning past the camera at a rapid rate - a parallax effect, that you can see in many videos if you know what you are looking for. A bird at 13000 feet is not particularly unbelievable, and is the most likely explanation (though it could even be a relatively small balloon or drone). 3/ The last clip, known as _Gimbal_, is probably a distant plane taken by the FLIR sensor at an extreme angle, and the strange behaviour of this object is once again caused by the peculiar characteristics of the FLIR and the parallax effect of the movement of the plane as it flies and an artifact of the Gimbal rotation of the sensor. In short these clips do not prove the existence of alien craft. I should point out that the Nimitz/Princeton encounter as described by David Fravour and by the radar operators cannot be explained by a distant plane, and I don’t know what Fravour saw, or what the radar operators saw; but it was not this. The radar operators detected something coming from a very high altitude to a very low altitude, which may have been meteors of some kind. This is certainly not what Fravour saw, and if pushed, I would suggest that Fravour saw a bird at mid-altitude like the GoFast video, or a balloon or drone. But we don’t have any material evidence to look at concerning Fravour’s sighting or the radar returns, so these will have to remain unexplained. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/59 "2020-04-29T17:09:29Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Actually when I see the videos [it does look a lot like when one looks at floaters in one’s eyes](http://www.kadrmaseyecare.com/floaters--flashes.html). One can follow the floaters for a few moments but eventually one runs out of space and the floater zips away from one’s view. IMO some equipment quirk took place, and they fixed on that “target” but because there was eventually a need to control the flight then the “floater” inside the device zinged away. Nah, that would only hold if it was one pilot who made the confirmation sighting, but it was confirmed [by multiple pilots.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident) > [@](#): > > After the return of the first team to Nimitz,\*\* a second crew took off\*\* at approximately 12:00 PST, this time equipped with an advanced infrared camera (FLIR pod). This camera recorded what appeared to be a moving object. The footage was publicly released by the Pentagon more than 13 years later, on 16 December 2017, alongside the revelation of the funding of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. > [@](#): > > \*\*Musicat \*\* > But I recall investigations by experts like Joe Nickell and Phil Klass about such stories (compare the squid fishing lights off of NZ, which were also claimed to be radar tracked). Radar signals are far from perfect; spurious signals are common. Radar operators are used to ignoring them, but if they get a report of some phenomena and think they can coordinate it with an unknown signal, that qualifies as confirmation. Signals that do not are ignored. Okay, but how do you reconcile that with multiple pilot descriptions of the objects. > [@](#): > > **Voyager** > Forget about Congress. How could anyone think Trump would keep his mouth shut if he was told aliens have been contacted or been proved to exist? It’s not stopped previous presidents [blabbing](https://www.csmonitor.com/1980/0825/082544.html) about having a Stealth aircraft before the F-117 was introduced in the late 80’s. > [@](#): > > GIGOBuster > By continuing with the items that have already more simple explanations. Because “floaters in camera equipment” Isn’t a satisfactory or plausible explanation. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759/60 "2020-04-29T17:47:54Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Nah, that would only hold if it was one pilot who made the confirmation sighting, but it was confirmed [by multiple pilots.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident) > Okay, but how do you reconcile that with multiple pilot descriptions of the objects. > > It’s not stopped previous presidents [blabbing](https://www.csmonitor.com/1980/0825/082544.html) about having a Stealth aircraft before the F-117 was introduced in the late 80’s. > > Because “floaters in camera equipment” Isn’t a satisfactory or plausible explanation. It is when you consider that you are not taking into account that that was a metaphor for any object inside the IR/Radar, like if it is a bug: The best explanation of why this item could be internal can be found in this thread from a science forum: > **[US Navy UFO video](https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/120270-us-navy-ufo-video/page/3/#comment-1121813)** > **[US Navy UFO video](https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/120270-us-navy-ufo-video/page/3/#comment-1122529)** > [@](#): > > Here are two animations that Illustrate what we should see when the object is External, and when the object is Internal: > > External: [https://i.ibb.co/tpH1JQW/External-Object.gif](https://i.ibb.co/tpH1JQW/External-Object.gif) > > Internal: [https://i.ibb.co/L943PJY/Internal-Object.gif](https://i.ibb.co/L943PJY/Internal-Object.gif) As for your insistence that we should take into account that this was confirmed by multiple pilots: where are their recordings of the incident? And IIRC even Hynek realized that pilots have to concentrate on many things while flying so they do not really make good witnesses when something outside their mission enters the picture. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-aerial-phenomena-whats-going-on/852759.md?page=4)