# Unidentified troops on streets of DC **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 5, 2020, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086 "2020-06-05T03:42:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/41 "2020-06-07T14:19:26Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > I grew up in a prison town made famous by Johnny Cash. Things may have changed since the 70’s but of the dozens of guards I knew (parents of friends or high school classmates), most barely finished high school or had equivalency diplomas, were heavy drinkers, and predominately conservative hicks (so by extension voted Republican by default but didn’t care one whit about the party or the candidates or the policies). > > It scares the ever living daylights out of me if your average prison guard is trying to manage a demonstration. Now, admittedly, the ones in DC are the elite unit called in to quell prison riots. That said, they shouldn’t be deputized to be doing crowd control. Kinda like having a podiatrist do open heart surgery. There aren’t a lot of prison guards who are living their dream. Many, many of them want to be police but couldn’t get hired. Did to that, they have some mighty big chips on their shoulders. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/42 "2020-06-07T14:45:42Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Why are protestors acting as though these are anything other than proud boy goons with better sponsorship? Ignore them. Walk past them. They have as much authority as the lunatic shouting on a street corner that the end is nigh. I assume because they are large armed men. > [@DrDeth](#): > > They are LEO, obeying orders from the DOJ. They arent doing anything wrong- it is Barr who should be blamed, not these poor schnooks. It’s Barr who be prosecuted for doing this, but yes, I believe they ARE doing something wrong by intimidating lawful protesters. Um, are prison guards trained in constitutional rights of civilians? I rather doubt it. They have no business being put on the streets like that. This is getting extremely ugly. And it looks like it’s going to get worse. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/43 "2020-06-07T17:30:13Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > … > > It scares the ever living daylights out of me if your average prison guard is trying to manage a demonstration. Now, admittedly, the ones in DC are the elite unit called in to quell prison riots. That said, they shouldn’t be deputized to be doing crowd control. Kinda like having a podiatrist do open heart surgery. Well, I agree, but dont blame them, blame Barr. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/44 "2020-06-07T18:25:31Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > if Trump loses and he orders his prison guards to block entry to the white house, [. . .] Can Trump order FBI and ATF agents to block and surround the white house if he loses re-election and prevent the next president from entering? The Presidency isn’t inherent in a building. The POTUS is POTUS whether in the White House, or at Camp David, or touring a disaster area, or visiting the Queen of England, or on Air Force One, or hanging out in my basement (not that I have ever had, or ever expect to have, a POTUS hanging out in my basement.) Trump could not remain president by physically holding the White House. The idea’s absurd. (Granted, often so is Trump. But he couldn’t make this bit of absurdity work even if he tried.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/45 "2020-06-08T13:42:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, they are not. They are not Goons, and they are not trumps. You haven’t convinced me that shmucks in expensive proud boy costumes should be considered to have authority because they reproduced or used to be in the military. You’ve just declared it to be so. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/46 "2020-06-08T18:07:18Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > You haven’t convinced me that shmucks in expensive proud boy costumes should be considered to have authority because they reproduced or used to be in the military. You’ve just declared it to be so. what are you babbling about? They have authority as they are Law Enforcement Officers. Whether or not they are vets has nothing whatseover to do with it. Nor does " they reproduced"😕 whatever the hell that means. A Undercover or plainclothes police officer is still a police officer. Nor are they wearing “proud boy costumes”. They are wearing riot gear. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/47 "2020-06-08T18:11:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > what are you babbling about? > > They have authority as they are Law Enforcement Officers. Whether or not they are vets has nothing whatseover to do with it. Nor does " they reproduced"😕 whatever the hell that means. > > A Undercover or plainclothes police officer is still a police officer. > > Nor are they wearing “proud boy costumes”. **They are wearing riot gear.** Then they should go find a riot to deal with rather than a peaceful protest. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/48 "2020-06-08T18:13:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They have authority as they are Law Enforcement Officers. Are federal BOP sworn officers with arrest powers? 'Round here, prison guards don’t have arrest powers. ETA: It appears that they have some arrest powers, but they are limited to escapees off BOP facilities, or violations of things like contraband in BOP facilities. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/49 "2020-06-08T18:16:33Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Are federal BOP sworn officers with arrest powers? 'Round here, prison guards don’t have arrest powers. Completely off topic, but today is your day! 6/8! Happy SD Handle Day to you. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/50 "2020-06-08T18:17:46Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Completely off topic, but today is your day! 6/8! Happy SD Handle Day to you. HAHA! Thanks, I didn’t even realize it 😃 I’ll try to remember you and return the favor when **RitterSport** day rolls around…😉 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/51 "2020-06-08T18:57:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > what are you babbling about?[ Your posts. > [@](#): > > They have authority as they are Law Enforcement Officers. Are they? Can you prove that? They have no insignia, they have no badges. THEY can’t even prove they have authority, how can you? Do you have their badges? > [@](#): > > Whether or not they are vets has nothing whatseover to do with it. Nor does " they reproduced"😕 whatever the hell that means. Then why did you mention these traits as being part of the reason they couldn’t possibly be brownshirts and this couldn’t possibly happen here. > [@](#): > > A Undercover or plainclothes police officer is still a police officer. If I come up to you and say “I’m an undercover cop” and proceed to act as though I have authority over you, would you obey? > [@](#): > > Nor are they wearing “proud boy costumes”. They are wearing riot gear. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/52 "2020-06-08T19:02:19Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Then they should go find a riot to deal with rather than a peaceful protest. 🙂 I believe the idea is to fire the guys who like to kick ass and hire the guys who want to work for the Peace Corps. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/53 "2020-06-08T19:07:47Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > HAHA! Thanks, I didn’t even realize it 😃 I’ll try to remember you and return the favor when **RitterSport** day rolls around…😉 This is as close as I’ll get: [https://nationaldaycalendar.com/national-chocolate-day-october-28/](https://nationaldaycalendar.com/national-chocolate-day-october-28/) Make a note of it! ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/54 "2020-06-08T19:14:54Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Are federal BOP sworn officers with arrest powers? 'Round here, prison guards don’t have arrest powers. > > ETA: It appears that they have some arrest powers, but they are limited to escapees off BOP facilities, or violations of things like contraband in BOP facilities. BOP Correctional Officers _are_ federal law enforcement officers. But, for this type of assignment, they are typically deputized as US Marshals and operate under the auspices of the USMS. The same is true of the Border Patrol (which also has limited arrest authority). I don’t know how common this sort of thing is, but there are examples going back at least to the 1960s. I think there are even examples of Border Patrol officers being deputized as _state_ law enforcement to help handle emergencies. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/55 "2020-06-08T19:55:54Z")
These aren’t guys just doing their jobs. Their job is guarding prisons. That’s not what they’re doing. And even if they are legitimately deputized, it sure as heck wasn’t legal for them to not identify themselves when asked (even when asked by other police officers!). ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/56 "2020-06-08T20:07:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > These aren’t guys just doing their jobs. Their job is guarding prisons. That’s not what they’re doing. And even if they are legitimately deputized, it sure as heck wasn’t legal for them to not identify themselves when asked (even when asked by other police officers!). At the point where they refused to identify themselves, (especially to other police officers - I had not heard this), that is the point at which they became heavily armed and dangerous civilians and subject to arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/57 "2020-06-08T20:39:59Z")
Read earlier in the thread, where the mayor of Washington wasn’t able to determine who they were. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/58 "2020-06-08T21:12:25Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > BOP Correctional Officers _are_ federal law enforcement officers. But, for this type of assignment, they are typically deputized as US Marshals and operate under the auspices of the USMS. The same is true of the Border Patrol (which also has limited arrest authority). I don’t know how common this sort of thing is, but there are examples going back at least to the 1960s. I think there are even examples of Border Patrol officers being deputized as _state_ law enforcement to help handle emergencies. Deputizing them is fine. But there has to be an order that deputizes them, and it has to be public so people know they’re so deputized. And the persons who’ve been deputized must have identification that makes clear that they’re one of this group that’s been deputized. Otherwise, any bunch of bozos could walk around in paramilitary gear, act like they’re law enforcement, refuse to identify themselves, and push people around as if they had authority to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/59 "2020-06-08T21:13:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > These aren’t guys just doing their jobs. Their job is guarding prisons. That’s not what they’re doing. And even if they are legitimately deputized, it sure as heck wasn’t legal for them to not identify themselves when asked (even when asked by other police officers!). I haven’t seen any sources that say they didn’t identify themselves to police officers. Do you have a citation for that? I’m also curious for the basis of your claim that it was “not legal” for them not to identify themselves when asked… is that legally required? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086/60 "2020-06-08T21:18:56Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Are they? Can you prove that? They have no insignia, they have no badges. THEY can’t even prove they have authority, how can you? > > Do you have their badges? > > Then why did you mention these traits as being part of the reason they couldn’t possibly be brownshirts and this couldn’t possibly happen here. > > If I come up to you and say “I’m an undercover cop” and proceed to act as though I have authority over you, would you obey? > > Exactly. Well, Investigative Reporter have proven that. If they arrested me I would have. I was comparing Brownshirts to BOP guards. If they said “stay out of that street it is dangerous” and I saw major trouble, i dont care who they are, I’d stay out of that street. Now if one of these guys gave anyone a order under authority, and didnt ID themselves by showing a badge, I guess that if you disobeyed that order (and why?) you would have a case for it to to be thrown out. But if they are lined up protecting something- which is exactly what they were doing, then I’d obey even a security guard. Did any of these BOP police order _you_ to do anything unreasonable? All they were doing is standing there, protecting things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unidentified-troops-on-streets-of-dc/855086.md?page=4)