# Unilateral Gaza Ceasefire: Now what happens? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859 "2009-01-18T15:17:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/1 "2009-01-18T15:17:46Z")
So now that Israel has declared [that](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/18/world/middleeast/18mideast.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss) Israel, in Olmert’s words, has “reached all the goals of the war, and beyond” and unilaterally is declaring a ceasefire, what happens next? Clearly a lot depends on the next sets of moves by all involved. As the previous cite continues: > [@](#): > > this war is a test case for any potential Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank. If Israelis feel that the West Bank will turn into another kind of chaotic, Hamas-run Gaza, they will be unwilling to withdraw — especially if they believe that if they withdrew and were then attacked from the West Bank, they would not be allowed to respond with force. > > “Gaza is an important test of whether we can defend ourselves within the 1967 boundaries,” Mr. Halevi said, noting that Hamas had been attacking Israel proper, not settlements. “Will we be able to defend ourselves if we need to from the West Bank? Will the international community let us?” > > The Israeli public has stayed united behind the war as a necessary battle, despite serious misgivings about the death toll of Palestinian civilians and international condemnation. Even Meretz, a party of the Israeli left, supported the air war. [One take](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7835893.stm) on the what happens next is that > [@](#): > > Israel’s assessment is that Hamas is in a lose-lose position. It believes that if Hamas accepts a ceasefire, it will show that it is beaten. > > And if it does not stop shooting when Israel does, then the Israeli army will go back on to the offensive. > > If that happens Israel believes it will have increased international legitimacy because it has declared that it is ready to stop fighting. … [Another view](http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/pollak/50971) is more jaundiced. > [@](#): > > The unilateral nature of the cease-fire should be read in the context of Israel’s (and Egypt’s) desire to avoid direct Israeli negotiations with, and thereby the legitimization of, Hamas. By acting unilaterally, Israel affirms this policy of diplomatic isolation. > > Opposition to the cease-fire has come principally from the IDF, which is furious at the politicians for stopping what has so far been a lopsided and successful operation that has seen far fewer IDF casualties than expected. The other source of dissent is public opinion, which remains overwhelmingly in favor of finishing the job … It’s going to take tremendous political willpower for Israel to pause Cast Lead and then resume it again. If Hamas’ leaders have any capacity for strategic thinking, they will halt their attacks for a week and ensure an Israeli withdrawal — and then hold victory parades, resume firing rockets, and test whether Israel is prepared to commence Cast Lead II a week after its first iteration was dismantled. In this way, the Israeli rout of Hamas the world witnessed over the past three weeks can be quickly transformed into an exemplar of jihadist bravery and steadfastness. The humiliation of Israel will be complete. > > An optimistic way of looking at the cease-fire is that it is an Israeli ploy designed to regain a favorable diplomatic position so that the war can be continued. If Hamas fires rockets at Israel after the cease-fire, Israel will be left with a compelling response to its detractors in Europe and America: No matter what we do, Hamas attacks us. They are forcing us to fight. Of course, world opinion will not be satisfied with a resumption of the operation, just as world opinion declared its dissatisfaction with the original operation approximately five minutes after it started. But the diplomats who administer international pressure might prove to be more understanding. I personally am disappointed that Israeli leadership is now committing to withdrawal within the week, for precisely the reason that the second commentator expresses. My preference would be to stay put doing no more than taking out Hamas rocket launchers used to continue attacks if they happen, until third parties present some means by which a moderately long lasting halt to rocket attacks can be assured while allowing other supplies in without restrictions. (Of course those will not be completely successful, but it is enough.) Then withdraw, quickly followed, from a position of strength, significant unilateral concessions to the PA in the West Bank as a means to jump start some meaningful final status negotiations, and to strengthen the hands of those Arab powers who want to deal with Israel and to diminish Hamas and other Islamists. Of course most of this could have been accomplished without as big of a ground operation in my mind. But if Hamas does refrain until after Israel withdraws, and Israel does withdraw without getting such third parties assurances or those assurances are made and Hamas begins rocket attacks anew within a few weeks any way, then the future depends heavily on how the world responds. A lukewarm or even Hamas sympathetic response from major world players is possible; they may do nothing leaving Israel no choice but to re-engage and the world’s players may again condemn Israel for responding in the only way it sees left open to it. That possible series of events would poison the well for any future Israeli concessions in the West Bank for many years to come. It cannot be allowed to occur. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/2 "2009-01-18T15:33:22Z")
[This small update.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7836205.stm)Hamas is trying to spin it and position as above and Israeli leadership is now saying it a bit smarter: > [@](#): > > Hamas’ deputy chief in Syria, Moussa Abou Marzouk, said the ceasefire was in the name of all “Palestinian resistance factions”. > > “We… announce a ceasefire of our factions in the Gaza Strip and we stress that our demand is the withdrawal of the enemy forces from the Gaza Strip within a week, along with the opening of all the crossings for the entry of humanitarian aid, food and other necessities for our people in the Gaza Strip.” > > The group said the ceasefire would be temporary unless Israel met these long-standing demands. > > An Israeli foreign ministry spokesman, Yigal Palmor, did not comment directly on the Hamas demands. > > But he told the BBC that troops would be withdrawn from the Gaza Strip “in good time” if there was “a total halt to attacks by Hamas”. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/3 "2009-01-18T15:38:10Z")
> [@](#): > > significant unilateral concessions to the PA in the West Bank as a means to jump start some meaningful final status negotiations This will never happen unless the US leans very heavily on Israel to do so, and maybe not even then. The only ‘significant’ concession would be to reduce the footprint of the Israeli West Bank settlements, and the infrastructure to protect and connect them. That has never happened; that footprint has only grown, and never shrunk, over the past 30 years. Israel apparently desires an increasingly radicalized Palestinian and Arab population, because that’s going to be the only lasting goal of this Gaza operation. Palestinian support for Hamas a month ago was below 20%; now Israel has empowered them again, regardless of what it may have done to their ability to fire missiles into Israel. If Israel managed to destroy Hamas, lock stock and barrel, it would only be replaced by something more radical. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/4 "2009-01-18T16:42:26Z")
Not quite accurate **RTF** , even though I’d agree that Israel has not done enough and has been contradictory in its approach. Israel has [taken on settler outposts](http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/932636.html) to some, albeit not large enough, degree. > [@](#): > > Police removed late Sunday 60 right-wing activists who tried to erect a new outpost near the West Bank city of Hebron. … Settler activists said they planned to try to set up two additional West Bank outposts and try to reclaim five other outposts already evacuated in recent months. … And [the carrot](http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/930818.html) is being employed too. > [@](#): > > the bill will turn Ma’aleh Ephraim and other “quality of life” settlements - where the homes have become worthless investments due to the intifada - into ghost towns… > … Eliezer says that if these people are offered alternative housing on the other side of the fence, they will pack their suitcases within an hour. > > Vilan says that even though the population in question is 10 times bigger than the Israeli community was in Gaza, evacuation-compensation in the West Bank will cost less than it did in Gaza But yes, meanwhile other building has been allowed to continue, and too little actual dismantlement has occurred to count as “significant”. New settlement construction must be frozen and that followed up on as well as following up on dismantlements previously promised. And there are other concessions that can be made, publicly, such as ceding some on water rights, a real bread and butter issue that matters more over the long term than whether the future Palestinian state is 93% or 97% of pre-1967 borders. Yes, it is possible that American pressure needs to be applied, (and we’ve had [that discussion recently.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=501009)) These are difficult concessions for any Israeli politician to make, especially with elections coming up. Yet the recent actions may earn the current administration enough toughness cred that the public will allow them to make concessions in the service of future security. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/5 "2009-01-19T06:08:53Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **I personally am disappointed that Israeli leadership is now committing to withdrawal within the week** , for precisely the reason that the second commentator expresses. My preference would be to stay put doing no more than taking out Hamas rocket launchers used to continue attacks if they happen, until third parties present some means by which a moderately long lasting halt to rocket attacks can be assured while allowing other supplies in without restrictions. I think there are several different components to this. Regarding Hamas themselves , the Israeli army was probably getting diminishing returns from ground combat. After several weeks of fighting , its not too hard to believe that Hamas individuals are plain tuckered out, the survivors that is. Second is the Obama presidency is a reality on Tuesday ,and I would imagine that the Israeli leadership wants to start the new relationship on a positive note, they have pretty much gotten what ever results that they have wanted, from here on, if they had stayed in Gaza would have just caused a steady stream of low level casualties. Third , from here on , had they continued operations they may have forced Egypt , Jordan, and everyone else who has been reacting positively towards Israel, in the neighborhood, to back pedal and turn on Israel. Fourth , and not the least last , is that the Israeli people probably want their people back home , and somewhat safe. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/6 "2009-01-19T14:14:27Z")
> [@](#): > > srael’s assessment is that Hamas is in a lose-lose position. It believes that if Hamas accepts a ceasefire, it will show that it is beaten. > > And if it does not stop shooting when Israel does, then the Israeli army will go back on to the offensive. > > If that happens Israel believes it will have increased international legitimacy because it has declared that it is ready to stop fighting. … I don’t see how Israel can reasonably expect any more legitimacy than they have already. They sat there and accepted hundreds of rockets and dozens of civilian deaths for months, and still people condemned them for the invasion. Hamas is going to spin any ceasefire as a victory for them. > [@](#): > > But if Hamas does refrain until after Israel withdraws, and Israel does withdraw without getting such third parties assurances or those assurances are made and Hamas begins rocket attacks anew within a few weeks any way, then the future depends heavily on how the world responds. A lukewarm or even Hamas sympathetic response from major world players is possible; they may do nothing leaving Israel no choice but to re-engage and the world’s players may again condemn Israel for responding in the only way it sees left open to it I think a lukewarm response if and when the rocket and other attacks resume is the best Israel can hope for. Military actions should be taken for military reasons. If Israel’s goal was to destroy the rocket launchers, then good - they have done that to whatever degree is reasonable to expect. If Israel expected to gain international sympathy by declaring a ceasefire, I think she will be disappointed. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/7 "2009-01-19T15:23:18Z")
Nothing happens. The fighters Hamas lost will be replaced by people who just had their homes blown up, and now want to fight Israel. The tunnels Israel destroyed will be rebuilt. The weapons Hamas used/lost will be replaced. In essence, we will be pretty much back where we started in three years. This war will accomplish as much as the one in Lebanon did, and that was pretty much bupkis. Except, in that case Hezbollah came out with more power than they had before. That won’t happen for Hamas simply because there’s no real way for them to have more power than they already had. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/8 "2009-01-19T15:32:45Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Nothing happens. > > The fighters Hamas lost will be replaced by people who just had their homes blown up, and now want to fight Israel. The tunnels Israel destroyed will be rebuilt. The weapons Hamas used/lost will be replaced. In essence, we will be pretty much back where we started in three years. Well, then, that’s three years we’ve gained. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/9 "2009-01-19T18:41:09Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Not quite accurate **RTF** , even though I’d agree that Israel has not done enough and has been contradictory in its approach. > > Israel has [taken on settler outposts](http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/932636.html) to some, albeit not large enough, degree.And [the carrot](http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/930818.html) is being employed too. > But yes, meanwhile other building has been allowed to continue, and too little actual dismantlement has occurred to count as “significant”. Exactly. Even as they do one of their all-too-rare dismantlings of an illegal settler outpost, other settlements and infrastructure continue to grow. Did you know that the Israeli population of the West Bank went from 135,000 in 1995 to 270,000 in 2007? (Neither did I, until recently - stuff like that gets underplayed, or left out altogether, by our mainstream media.) That’s a pretty serious increase of colonization. It’s hard to take seriously Israel’s desire for peace on anything besides their own terms when they let things like that happen. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/10 "2009-01-19T18:42:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t see how Israel can reasonably expect any more legitimacy than they have already. They sat there and accepted hundreds of rockets and dozens of civilian deaths for months, and still people condemned them for the invasion. Cite on the deaths, please? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/11 "2009-01-19T18:57:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > They sat there and accepted hundreds of rockets and dozens of civilian deaths for months, and still people condemned them for the invasion. > > Regards, > Shodan Dozens of civilian deaths? When? If I understand things correctly, before the latest Israeli attack, Hamas rockets from Gaza hadn’t even injured a single Israeli let alone killed one. Even if that is wrong, certainly the number of Israeli civilians killed by such attacks was very, very low. And Israel hadn’t just been sitting there. Before the latest attack, they launched numerous strikes on Gaza which killed civilians as well as militants. The reason the Israeli attack has been condemned around the world is because it is widely considered a form of collective punishment; a strategy which is seen as morally equivalent to terrorism. The idea appears to be that if sufficient pain is inflicted on the people in Gaza, they will turn against Hamas. Shimon Peres has said as much recently and Tom Friedman wrote a column in the NYT recently how about how all that civilian suffering in Lebanon and Gaza was a form of “education” for Hezbollah and Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/12 "2009-01-19T19:01:27Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Did you know that the Israeli population of the West Bank went from 135,000 in 1995 to 270,000 in 2007? (Neither did I, until recently - stuff like that gets underplayed, or left out altogether, by our mainstream media.) That’s a pretty serious increase of colonization. It’s hard to take seriously Israel’s desire for peace on anything besides their own terms when they let things like that happen. I’d like to see a cite for those numbers, as well as an answer to 2 important questions: 1. Do those numbers include East Jerusalem? 2. How much of the increase is from immigration, and how much is “natural growth” - meaning settlers having children? The reason I ask is that, while very few Israelis that I know of actually moved to the Territories after Oslo, settlers tend to be religious people with large families, and 1995 is when the children of the first generation of settlers (who came there in the early 1970s) started having kids of their own, precipitating a minor “baby boom.” If a colony grows without an influx of outsiders, is it still colonization? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/13 "2009-01-19T19:03:35Z")
It can’t be easy to attack an enemy that launches their attacks from an area densely populated with civilians without hitting a few civilians. What steps could Israel have taken to minimize civilian casualties? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/14 "2009-01-19T19:08:37Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > The reason the Israeli attack has been condemned around the world is because it is widely considered a form of collective punishment; a strategy which is seen as morally equivalent to terrorism. If “the world” believes that, then it is wrong and immoral. Self-defence is not equivalent to terrorism. I wonder how “the world” would react, if rockets were randomly raining down on _them_. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/15 "2009-01-19T19:15:34Z")
To put it bluntly - if five rockets were hitting your town per day, completely at random, would you take your child to the playground? Answer me honestly. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/16 "2009-01-19T19:27:22Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’d like to see a cite for those numbers, as well as an answer to 2 important questions: > > 1. Do those numbers include East Jerusalem? No. See second link below. > [@](#): > > 1. How much of the increase is from immigration, and how much is “natural growth” - meaning settlers having children? From the numbers I’ve seen, looks like about 50-50. See the table I mention in the first cite below, which shows growth of about 48K naturally and 45K otherwise during the 1995-2003 period. I’m positive I read the 135K and 270K for 1995 and 2007 on the _American Prospect_ website, which I’ve found factually reliable, but can’t seem to locate those numbers now. However, the table near the bottom of [this page](http://www.peacenow.org.il/site/en/peace.asp?pi=62&docid=1375), which only covers 1996-2003, gives growth over previous year for 1996, and based on that, we get 138,600 for 1995. For the 2007 number, I found [this PowerPoint](http://www.peacenow.org.il/data/SIP_STORAGE/files/8/3458.ppt) which, in Slide 3, gives a 267,500 figure for 2007, and specifically says the figure excludes East Jerusalem. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/17 "2009-01-19T19:39:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If a colony grows without an influx of outsiders, is it still colonization? Absolutely. Has Israel made kids who grew up in West Bank settlements move back within the pre-1967 boundaries after they reached adulthood? In the absence of such a policy, births as well as new colonists create facts on the ground, as the phrase goes, that makes the colonization more rooted and more difficult to undo. You’re still looking at a limited number of endgame options for the West Bank: voluntary withdrawal by Israel, forced withdrawal of the Palestinians (i.e. ethnic cleansing), assimilation of Israelis and Palestinians alike into a mixed Jewish-Palestinian West Bank/Gaza state, a perpetuation of the current state of apartheid, assimilation of the Palestinians into Israel but as second-class citizens of some sort, unification of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza as a Palestinian state with an Israeli minority…I don’t know if that covers the waterfront, but it’s close. The increase of West Bank settlements by whatever means make certain outcomes more likely, and other outcomes less likely. The question is: what’s Israel’s supposed goal, and is this increase consistent with, or contradictory to, the attainment of that goal? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/18 "2009-01-19T19:46:08Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > What steps could Israel have taken to minimize civilian casualties? They could have decided that certain military objectives were not valuable enough to offset the cost of the unavoidable civilian casualties that they would incurr. That is the question: how much additional benefit was gained by the ground campaign and at what additional cost in terms of civilian deaths and civilian infrastructure damage? It seems to me that the marginal benefit was fairly small and the marginal cost relatively large. But yes, assuming the decision to achieve a justifiable military objective, and the environment, they did a good job at minimizing civilian losses while not increasing the risks to their own troops. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/19 "2009-01-19T19:47:06Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Self-defence is not equivalent to terrorism. Nonetheless, deeds committed in the name of self-defense _can_ be equivalent to terrorism. It hardly appears that the attacks on the West Bank have in any way resembled a surgical strike. Dropping bombs from the air on civilians with nowhere to flee is an act of terror. I don’t see how any reasonable person can claim otherwise. > [@](#): > > I wonder how “the world” would react, if rockets were randomly raining down on _them_. If “the world” blockaded my city by land and sea, I’d point out that firing fairly ineffectual rockets at one of the blockading nations was not likely to make our situation better. But I suspect my voice would be drowned out, because you know how most people, anywhere, anytime, react to such things. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859/20 "2009-01-19T19:51:30Z")
Just for context, many of the settlers are Orthodox and have high birthrates, as high or higher than the Arab population of the West Bank. (Secular Israeli Jews tend to have lower birth rates.) So much of that population growth was “natural” not immigration. Not all but much. I note that you make little distinction **RTF** but it should be noted for the sake of those who do. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unilateral-gaza-ceasefire-now-what-happens/481859.md?page=2)