# Uninsured people who oppose healthcare reform **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855 "2009-12-11T13:37:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/261 "2009-12-16T19:15:24Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > I have noticed that it is easier to augment and fix things that aren’t working up to their potential rather than just lob one huge bastard bill on the docket and try to get it passed. If they can get some of the stuff worked out (in my opinion), then the rest can be tweaked to get the most out of it later on. > > That is how I totally expected all of this to go anyway. Maybe, but the Dems could be on borrowed time should that happen. If this bill passes, there’s a good chance they will get crushed in 2010. Check out today’s piece in the WaPo. Full disclosure, it’s an opinion piece by a strategist of some kind for W back in 2004: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/16/AR2009121601880.html?hpid=opinionsbox1](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/16/AR2009121601880.html?hpid=opinionsbox1) > [@](#): > > As Wednesday’s Post-ABC poll shows, a majority of Americans believe that if this bill passes their health-care costs will rise, the federal deficit will increase, the costs of the overall health-care system will climb, and their own care would be better if the system stays as is. Democrats (including former president Bill Clinton) claim that they need this bill to pass for political reasons. But let’s examine that. At present, a majority of Americans are against the effort, the legislation lacks bipartisan support, the costs of the reforms are upfront, and the benefits won’t kick in until after the 2012 elections. When has that ever been a formula for political success? and > [@](#): > > If this legislation passes, Democrats will be held accountable for any failures or problems in the system. So if Americans’ insurance premiums rise, they will blame the Democrats. If patients have to wait in line at emergency rooms, it will be seen as the Democrats’ fault. If health-care costs don’t drop, the Democrats will face the wrath of the electorate. and for those who have been whining in this thread about those evil talk radio types drowning out the Dem message, as the reason why America just can’t wake up and smell the European-style wonderfulness > [@](#): > > Many Democrats, including people in the administration, blame poor marketing for their difficulties in passing health reform. They say they haven’t gotten the message out. But advocates of reform have spent millions on advertising and lobbying this year. And Obama, who many say is the best orator ever to occupy the White House, has pushed for this legislation constantly over the past six months. In that time, support for Obama’s handling of health-care reform has dropped by more than a net of 30 points. The piece also details dangers to the GOP should the legislation **not** pass. So, if you believe this guy, be careful for what you wish for. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/262 "2009-12-16T20:07:45Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Tumble, do I have to draw a map for you? No, but you clearly need to go back to English Composition 101. If you’re framing something as your thesis argument then it needs to actually contain the elements you’re claiming that it does. The quote that _you_ selected says **nothing** about anyone’s desire to buy insurance, whether privately or via a government program or anything else. Nothing. For you to use it as validation of a claim that people don’t want to buy insurance is creating things out of whole cloth. > [@](#): > > Go back and read my cites. Your cites are opinion piece garbage. I could give a rip about your so-called cites. Editorials and the flailing of biased pundits aren’t facts. > [@](#): > > See what everyone is saying: In many cases, the young and healthy do NOT want to buy insurance, at least beyond what Medicaid would provide them. Medicaid wouldn’t provide them anything, if they’re working, which the majority of uninsured people are, and if they’re single and childless, even if they’re not working, they’re not likely to get a damn thing from Medicaid. So reel that stupidity right back in because it’s just not a part of the reality-based world. > [@](#): > > They get it that if the Gummint takes over, that they will have to pay for this insurance, one way or the other. Another stupid talking point. The government isn’t taking anything other. It never was going to take anything over. That phrasing is straight out of the Right Wing Book of Scary Lies. > [@](#): > > It is a tiny babystep to assume that that’s the reason why many of them don’t want this ‘reform’; because it will force them to ‘buy’ insurance (and note I said ‘many’, not 'all). You know what they say you do when you assume, Smashy old friend? Yeah, you just did it. Note that none of your speculating extends to _why_ young and currently healthy people “don’t want” to buy insurance. If they have to buy it, that means that it’s not offered to them via their employer. That means buying on the private market – something that only 5% of insured people do – which is outrageously expensive, often so much so that it’s inaccessible to young people who are just starting out, especially if they have a lot of educational debt, and low, starter salaries. As an example, a friend of mine quoted his insurance rate just this morning, as a 28 year old, non-smoking, single white professional male – lawyer – he’s paying $9,600 annually. It’s about 1/4 of his pre-tax salary. I “don’t want” to buy things that are so extremely pricey that they will create a significant downward change in my standard of living, even if I _could_ if I made a lot of steep sacrifices. > [@](#): > > The reform we’re talking about is not whether we use X-rays or use CT Scans… it’s all about insurance and the financing of care (2,000 bloody pages of it). Yes, and the biggest reason why people are uninsured is because of the cost, and there has been sufficient obfuscation and misleading and fearmongering, mostly from opponents of any reform, as to whether reform would lead to price reductions for consumers. One of the strongest aspects of reform in terms of affordability and accessibility was the public option which is now pretty much dead, thanks to that same obfuscation and fearmongering. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/263 "2009-12-16T20:54:13Z")
Such anger! No wonders liberals are always unhappy. Oh well, you will be happy to read the latest on it here > **[A glimpse into the abyss of health reform's (unlikely) defeat.](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2009/12/a-glimpse-into-the-abyss-of-health-reform-s-unlikely-defeat.html)** > > The White House is so determined to pass anything—and I mean anything—it can call health reform that I'm not yet prepared to believe that Senate... Warning! Warning! It’s about future political implications; it could be called an opinion piece!!! ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/264 "2009-12-16T21:04:26Z")
and **tumble** , just to make it clear, my point was (still is) that the reason people do not want to buy insurance is that they want to save the money. And that’s a rational decision. And it’s backed up with research that took me 5 min. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082103033.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082103033.html) [http://healthinsurance.about.com/od/individualpolicies/a/mandates.htm](http://healthinsurance.about.com/od/individualpolicies/a/mandates.htm) [http://www.env-econ.net/2009/09/some-thoughts-on-health-care.html](http://www.env-econ.net/2009/09/some-thoughts-on-health-care.html) you are ranting on that the insurance is too expensive. I don’t necessarily disagree with you, in some cases. I feel like we’re both arguing about the same thing. (“The sky is blue!!” “No it’s not, it’s above the ground!!!”) You want to paint them all with a broad brush, implying that they ALL don’t buy it because they cannot afford it. Well, if you’d bother to read the quotes (“I know!!! It’s mere opinion piece tripe!!!”), you’d have seen this one: > [@](#): > > There are some people who simply will not voluntarily purchase health insurance. These people tend to be low-risk, healthy individuals who don’t think they need it–or at least don’t think the money they would spend on it would get them much. Note the reason: they don’t want to buy it because they’ve made a rational tradeoff in their head: they’d rather pay-as-they-go for medical services. Not, “They can’t afford it!!!” You may reply once you’ve calmed down. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/265 "2009-12-16T21:30:25Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > You may reply once you’ve calmed down. How magnanimous you ignorant coward. Also, not wanting to buy insurance isn’t rational. Because they want the benefit when they get in a car accident. And they get care when something horrible happens because we as a society don’t let people without insurance bleed to death. So, not buying insurance still lets you get care, but it shifts the price to society at large. It’s amazing how utterly without thought your opinions are. If you had the slightest bit of integrity you’d cop to it, but you appear to be transparent to humiliation. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/266 "2009-12-17T01:11:52Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > How magnanimous you ignorant coward. > > Also, not wanting to buy insurance isn’t rational. Because they want the benefit when they get in a car accident. And they get care when something horrible happens because we as a society don’t let people without insurance bleed to death. So, not buying insurance still lets you get care, but it shifts the price to society at large. > > It’s amazing how utterly without thought your opinions are. If you had the slightest bit of integrity you’d cop to it, but you appear to be transparent to humiliation. **Lobo** , if you want replies from now on, you’ll improve your manners and refrain from insults. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/267 "2009-12-17T01:34:31Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > **Lobo** , if you want replies from now on, you’ll improve your manners and refrain from insults. Better manners. Check! Dearest Smashy, I would like to offer to you a suggestion that before you flap your empty head about something, you do, in good faith, at least a bit of research on it. Also, if it please you, I would request that at your earliest convenience, you be honest about how many times you were utterly and amazingly wrong in this very thread instead of trying to divert attention by changing subjects or random posts that are not on topic. In summation, you are a perfect example of the willful and enthusiastic stupidity embraced by the right in recent years. You are, if I may say, a living caricature. Your humble servant, Lobohan ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/268 "2009-12-17T02:10:20Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > **Lobo** , if you want replies from now on, you’ll improve your manners and refrain from insults. It’s not like you’ve been treating those who have been dealing with you seriously any better. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/269 "2009-12-17T04:45:41Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > It’s not like you’ve been treating those who have been dealing with you seriously any better. Indeed. I find that when someone tries to engage with you seriously without insults, you pretty much drop a one-liner or ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/270 "2009-12-17T05:42:18Z")
past edit window… “you” above refers to Mr. **Smashy** , not **Bosstone** , of course. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/271 "2009-12-17T05:45:13Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > past edit window… “you” above refers to Mr. **Smashy** , not **Bosstone** , of course. Well, I do the same thing too, so all’s fair. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/272 "2009-12-17T14:37:48Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > It’s not like you’ve been treating those who have been dealing with you seriously any better. Please go back and read the entire post. yeah, I know that’s alot. Note who began all this, with everything from coward stupid ignorant shitbrain (post 41) mealymouthed uninformed whore ignorant lying coward (post 97) stupid fuck cultist moderately bright (WTF!!!) (post 98) ignorant coward (again) obtuse dense That takes us halfway through this thread. Finally I came to the realization that the only people who talk that way are lefty college kids, holed up in their dorm room (ie internet tough-guys). They think they know everything, but in reality don’t know much. So I finally (mildly, IMHO) pointed that out, in post 121. And you folks, in your Vietnamesque sense of scale, have equated that. So, as I said before, hey it’s the Pit, he can say anything he wants. But I have no desire to either return fire at his highly intellectual level, nor will I respond until that young man learns some manners. I don’t care where you are on the political spectrum, or what you think about Obamacare. If you can’t see the reality of this situation, then this board may be beyond all hope. I was actually going to join (ie, pay) today, but if it’s mostly a bunch of angry lefties unwilling to engage in reasonable debate, then what’s the point? (I make exceptions for **M4M** and **joebuck** , who may have wished that he never started this mess…) ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/273 "2009-12-17T14:46:37Z")
Thats all you have been called in the pit? Jeez, you aren’t even trying. What about buttface, dweezil dick, homo erectus injectus, weiner, fart huffer, dildo breath, jizz blizzard lizzard, nerf herder, plippy ploppy, slippy sloppy, and poop head? Pbbbssh. 😃 You get people to take you more seriously when you don’t use Fox News gotcha words such as “Obamacare” or the like. I support HCR and I don’t call it that. Thats lame. I dunno man, I can see some of your points but you haven’t really been debating that well either. People take debating on a more academic level than you might be used to (cites that aren’t opinion pieces, for the most part) Welcome to the SDMB BBQ Pit. Shit, fuck, and ass. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/274 "2009-12-17T15:40:20Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > (I make exceptions for **M4M** and **joebuck** , who may have wished that he never started this mess…) But that’s my point. You’ve still snarked at **M4M** and others unnecessarily. I mean, Eskimo-land? What are you, 6? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/275 "2009-12-17T16:22:13Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Please go back and read the entire post. yeah, I know that’s alot. > > Note who began all this, with everything from And yet, you only respond in a substantive way to the insults. You don’t engage with my cites and reasonable comments. I’m not surprised by this (lack of) response, given the forum, but don’t bitch about it yourself. I’m not equating your comments with others - I’m just noting that you appear to be enjoying dragging the insults out of people, since you’re engaging with them, and not with people that do not insult you. eta: in other words, you are playing the “look at all the lefties being mean to me” game. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/276 "2009-12-17T17:14:53Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > But that’s my point. You’ve still snarked at **M4M** and others unnecessarily. I mean, Eskimo-land? What are you, 6? 42 ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/277 "2009-12-17T17:16:32Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > nerf herder, > ////// > Welcome to the SDMB BBQ Pit. Shit, fuck, and ass. LOL > [@](#): > > Everyone is entitled to their opinion absolutely ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/278 "2009-12-17T17:23:46Z")
Poor Mr. Smashy. ::tear:: Remember people, nobody’s feeling get hurt faster than a conservative. Please use your kid gloves. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/279 "2009-12-17T18:06:45Z")
It appears to me that **Mr. Smashy** is quite enjoying collecting insults. When he gets one, he lovingly gazes at it, sniffs it a bit and rubs it on himself a little. Then he puts it into a special box on a shelf. After he gets enough of them, he gathers them all together into a pile and rolls around on them. When he’s done touching them all over, he gets them all full of static by rubbing them on his hair. He can them stick the insults all over his body, and sit in the corner with a sad look on his face, while saying “look at how mean all the lefties are to me!” ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/280 "2009-12-17T18:25:12Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Please go back and read the entire post. yeah, I know that’s alot. > > Note who began all this, with everything from > > coward > stupid > ignorant > shitbrain (post 41) > mealymouthed > uninformed > whore > ignorant lying coward (post 97) > stupid fuck > cultist > moderately bright (WTF!!!) (post 98) > ignorant coward (again) > obtuse > dense > > That takes us halfway through this thread. Finally I came to the realization that the only people who talk that way are lefty college kids, holed up in their dorm room (ie internet tough-guys). They think they know everything, but in reality don’t know much. > > So I finally (mildly, IMHO) pointed that out, in post 121. > > And you folks, in your Vietnamesque sense of scale, have equated that. > > So, as I said before, hey it’s the Pit, he can say anything he wants. But I have no desire to either return fire at his highly intellectual level, nor will I respond until that young man learns some manners. > > I don’t care where you are on the political spectrum, or what you think about Obamacare. If you can’t see the reality of this situation, then this board may be beyond all hope. > > I was actually going to join (ie, pay) today, but if it’s mostly a bunch of angry lefties unwilling to engage in reasonable debate, then what’s the point? (I make exceptions for > **M4M** and **joebuck** , who may have wished that he never started this mess…) I think you will find that all of those insults were completely justified and only used in the sense that they perfectly describe the rickety collection of defects you call a personality. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855.md?page=15)